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What allies? The Philippines already crossed over to China;s side. Vietnam, which just 2 years ago invited the US Navy to use the ports at Da Nang, has been m

What allies? The Philippines already crossed over to China;s side. Vietnam, which just 2 years ago invited the US Navy to use the ports at Da Nang, has been miffed by the loss of TPP. Obama worked hard to build a coalition confronting China to prevent the war from ever happening. Trump's incompetence is destroying it. And free trade has kept China peaceful by establishing that any resource the Chinese want, from any other country, they can compete for by bidding for it, rather than having to fight for it. Now Trump is threatening that. This loudmouth moron is goading China into war and making it more likely they will win.

Arizhel 10y ago
The TPP was a significant issue in the election, and helped get Trump elected. It even divided the Democratic party, and Hillary finally switched sides and was against it. The TPP had way too much input from Obama's corporate masters, particularly in the entertainment industry. It was a good idea at first, I think, but it was ruined by the details. It wasn't a good deal for regular Americans, only the corporations. So it's not just Trump's incompetence at work here, it's Obama's incompetence too. He could have made a much more limited TPP that didn't give so much power to Hollywood and the copyright cartels.
- ocschwar 10y ago
  All true. But it takes a president with an attention span longer than 90 seconds to fix these issues. If instead we have a guy who just nixes TPP, then we have to take note that we do not have allies in the west Pacific in a war with China.
  - jdmichal 10y ago
    If a from-scratch refactor is what the TPP needs, then nixing it is the first step...
    - ocschwar 10y ago
      That's assuming the other parties to the negotiation will be cool with it. We have a president who doesn't seem to understand we don't get to dictate terms to other countries.
      - jdmichal 10y ago
        > ... we don't get to dictate terms to other countries. Of course not; it's a negotiation. And power plays are a very legitimate tactic to use during a negotiation. And the US happens to have a large amount of both economic and militaristic power.
        ocschwar 10y ago
        And using it in this particular fashion is poor form if your intent is to secure another nation's commitment to send their soldiers and sailors to die alongside yours.
        jdmichal 10y ago
        In what particular fashion is that? Nixing a deal you don't agree with? That's just a failure of negotiation, not a power play.
  - Arizhel 10y ago
    I don't get it. Trump isn't the only one nixing the TPP. Sanders was going to nix it too, and so was Hillary (unless she was lying). Have you forgotten that Hillary came out against the TPP too? There was no choice for a candidate who was pro-TPP in this election, except earlier on during the GOP primaries. If you're pro-TPP, the best you could have gotten was Hillary who, considering what she said about it, might have tried to amend it instead of nixing it altogether.
    - ocschwar 10y ago
      Yes. Sanders also decided to sacrifice TPP, meaning no coalition in East Asia to check China. However, Sanders has no intention of goading China into war.
      - Arizhel 10y ago
        You're not going to convince average voters that they need a trade agreement which makes things worse for them just to "check China". This is a big part of why Trump won.
        tokenizer 10y ago
        OP Here, my whole point was America's power would get them a better trade deal. My whole point was China would not want war, and neither do we, so a restructuring makes sense. Yet I get downvoted by idiots who hate opinions they don't have. And I replied to you to agree with you - Trump one because giving lopsided deals makes NO SENSE - Unless you're a billionaire wanting cheaper labour in the 70s...
- eli_gottlieb 10y ago
  >So it's not just Trump's incompetence at work here, it's Obama's incompetence too. He could have made a much more limited TPP that didn't give so much power to Hollywood and the copyright cartels. If you feel a need to make a sinister choice between a war between nations and a war on the working class, you've done something very, very wrong.

Arizhel 10y ago

The TPP was a significant issue in the election, and helped get Trump elected. It even divided the Democratic party, and Hillary finally switched sides and was against it. The TPP had way too much input from Obama's corporate masters, particularly in the entertainment industry. It was a good idea at first, I think, but it was ruined by the details. It wasn't a good deal for regular Americans, only the corporations. So it's not just Trump's incompetence at work here, it's Obama's incompetence too. He could have made a much more limited TPP that didn't give so much power to Hollywood and the copyright cartels.

ocschwar 10y ago
All true. But it takes a president with an attention span longer than 90 seconds to fix these issues. If instead we have a guy who just nixes TPP, then we have to take note that we do not have allies in the west Pacific in a war with China.
- jdmichal 10y ago
  If a from-scratch refactor is what the TPP needs, then nixing it is the first step...
  - ocschwar 10y ago
    That's assuming the other parties to the negotiation will be cool with it. We have a president who doesn't seem to understand we don't get to dictate terms to other countries.
    - jdmichal 10y ago
      > ... we don't get to dictate terms to other countries. Of course not; it's a negotiation. And power plays are a very legitimate tactic to use during a negotiation. And the US happens to have a large amount of both economic and militaristic power.
      - ocschwar 10y ago
        And using it in this particular fashion is poor form if your intent is to secure another nation's commitment to send their soldiers and sailors to die alongside yours.
        jdmichal 10y ago
        In what particular fashion is that? Nixing a deal you don't agree with? That's just a failure of negotiation, not a power play.
- Arizhel 10y ago
  I don't get it. Trump isn't the only one nixing the TPP. Sanders was going to nix it too, and so was Hillary (unless she was lying). Have you forgotten that Hillary came out against the TPP too? There was no choice for a candidate who was pro-TPP in this election, except earlier on during the GOP primaries. If you're pro-TPP, the best you could have gotten was Hillary who, considering what she said about it, might have tried to amend it instead of nixing it altogether.
  - ocschwar 10y ago
    Yes. Sanders also decided to sacrifice TPP, meaning no coalition in East Asia to check China. However, Sanders has no intention of goading China into war.
    - Arizhel 10y ago
      You're not going to convince average voters that they need a trade agreement which makes things worse for them just to "check China". This is a big part of why Trump won.
      - tokenizer 10y ago
        OP Here, my whole point was America's power would get them a better trade deal. My whole point was China would not want war, and neither do we, so a restructuring makes sense. Yet I get downvoted by idiots who hate opinions they don't have. And I replied to you to agree with you - Trump one because giving lopsided deals makes NO SENSE - Unless you're a billionaire wanting cheaper labour in the 70s...
eli_gottlieb 10y ago
>So it's not just Trump's incompetence at work here, it's Obama's incompetence too. He could have made a much more limited TPP that didn't give so much power to Hollywood and the copyright cartels. If you feel a need to make a sinister choice between a war between nations and a war on the working class, you've done something very, very wrong.