7 ms·

>> There is no way SV would have grown to what it is now without foreign talent. So the shortage has been real for the last 30+ years. Not sure why this point i

>> There is no way SV would have grown to what it is now without foreign talent. So the shortage has been real for the last 30+ years. Not sure why this point is still controversial. Mainly because we have over 7 million people unemployed. The controversy is why are we bringing in so many foreign workers when we have so many people out of work here? The argument basically comes down to what would we need to do to get some of these unemployed people here trained to be able to take some of these jobs? and if so, what's that cost compared to these H1-B's were bringing in? Also, at the end of the day, how motivated are those unemployed people to go through the rigorous training in order to be able to take these jobs? If you've spent 20 years putting hubcaps on cars in a factory, are you going to want to take six months to learn basic .Net or Javascript? I don't have any of the answers, these are just some of the rumblings I've heard from executives I know at various large corporations.

yummyfajitas 10y ago
Realistically, most of our 7 million unemployed are unemployed by choice. They are unwilling to do many jobs they perceive as being "below their station" and they are unwilling to move to places where the jobs are. We need to import a better working class to pay for our leisure class since pushing our leisure class into work is considered socially unacceptable. Here's a great first person account of this: http://www.vox.com/first-person/2016/12/19/13956666/unemployment-men-prime-working-age http://www.vox.com/first-person/2016/12/19/13956666/unemploy... "There have been times where I’ve wondered if I should just get a temporary service or manual labor...I would be too humiliated...a neighbor or friend [might]...see me working the cash register or pumping gas. " See also NPR's expose on disability fraud: http://apps.npr.org/unfit-for-work/ http://apps.npr.org/unfit-for-work/
- whoiskevin 10y ago
  Again a few examples that are often used to justify calling 7 million people lazy. If the visas are being used for for cash register and pumping gas jobs (how many states pump gas for you?) then this might make some sense but these are just isolated events and fit a narrative convenient to corporations to justify many practices that are mainly beneficial to the corporation.
- anjc 10y ago
  The last major study I saw on this showed that a large proportion of IT and STEM graduates had to move into unrelated industries due to an inability to find employment. This meme that there are hordes of people who would choose poverty because of an unwillingness to work is disgusting.
  - yummyfajitas 10y ago
    60% of poor adults choose not to work. I'm sorry you consider reality to be "disgusting". http://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/library/publications/2015/demo/p60-252.pdf http://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/library/publication... Table 3 Page 21 My uncited study says that your uncited study is wrong and the authors of your study are Nazis.
    - antisthenes 10y ago
      > 60% of poor adults choose not to work. I'm sorry you consider reality to be "disgusting". Which is not evidence of them being lazy. They could be acting in their own economic best interest by being in a welfare trap. Not sure what your point is here, other than some welfare programs are poorly structured.
      - yummyfajitas 10y ago
        My point is that contra ajnc, there are hordes of people who "choose poverty because of an unwillingness to work".
        anjc 10y ago
        Whatever you say Mrs Rand.
        deleted 10y ago
        [deleted]
        deleted 10y ago
- antisthenes 10y ago
  Realistically, the only thing in support of a ridiculous statement like "most of our 7 million unemployed are unemployed by choice" is that one article, where a person, for multiple reasons not explicitly stated in the article might not want to take a certain demanding manual labor job. I would suggest coming up with better arguments for the debunked supply side economics you're trying to push.
- unprepare 10y ago
  >unemployed by choice >they are unwilling to move to places where the jobs are. How exactly would an unemployed person move? security deposit/down payment, moving costs, etc all cost real money, and without an income, I'm not sure how you would expect someone to move across the country. Humans are on average risk averse - and certainly no one would advise someone to move out to california on their credit card, in hopes of immediately finding a well paying job. Its not like someone who has been unemployed for two years is so attractive that theyd be getting offers with relocation included thrown at them.
  - yummyfajitas 10y ago
    How exactly would an unemployed person move? security deposit/down payment, moving costs, etc all cost real money, and without an income, I'm not sure how you would expect someone to move across the country. Strangely, illegal Mexicans seem to have solved this problem. In fact, they solved it so well that we plan to build a wall to keep them out. This is why I say we need to import a better working class. Our own leisure class seems completely incapable of doing anything!
    - unprepare 10y ago
      Have you ever met an illegal immigrant? been to their home? asked them about their experience coming to the US? Its interesting to see you assume so much about illegal immigrants, when you clearly dont have even a foundational understanding of their lives here or in mexico.
      - yummyfajitas 10y ago
        Do you have a substantive argument, or merely the vague supposition that somewhere out there there must be some personal anecdote that invalidates what I said? Could you clarify what "assume so much" refers to? I'm pretty sure that the only assumption I made is that most illegal immigrants are not non-workers collecting benefits.
        10y ago

yummyfajitas 10y ago

Realistically, most of our 7 million unemployed are unemployed by choice. They are unwilling to do many jobs they perceive as being "below their station" and they are unwilling to move to places where the jobs are. We need to import a better working class to pay for our leisure class since pushing our leisure class into work is considered socially unacceptable. Here's a great first person account of this: http://www.vox.com/first-person/2016/12/19/13956666/unemployment-men-prime-working-age http://www.vox.com/first-person/2016/12/19/13956666/unemploy... "There have been times where I’ve wondered if I should just get a temporary service or manual labor...I would be too humiliated...a neighbor or friend [might]...see me working the cash register or pumping gas. " See also NPR's expose on disability fraud: http://apps.npr.org/unfit-for-work/ http://apps.npr.org/unfit-for-work/

whoiskevin 10y ago
Again a few examples that are often used to justify calling 7 million people lazy. If the visas are being used for for cash register and pumping gas jobs (how many states pump gas for you?) then this might make some sense but these are just isolated events and fit a narrative convenient to corporations to justify many practices that are mainly beneficial to the corporation.
anjc 10y ago
The last major study I saw on this showed that a large proportion of IT and STEM graduates had to move into unrelated industries due to an inability to find employment. This meme that there are hordes of people who would choose poverty because of an unwillingness to work is disgusting.
- yummyfajitas 10y ago
  60% of poor adults choose not to work. I'm sorry you consider reality to be "disgusting". http://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/library/publications/2015/demo/p60-252.pdf http://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/library/publication... Table 3 Page 21 My uncited study says that your uncited study is wrong and the authors of your study are Nazis.
  - antisthenes 10y ago
    > 60% of poor adults choose not to work. I'm sorry you consider reality to be "disgusting". Which is not evidence of them being lazy. They could be acting in their own economic best interest by being in a welfare trap. Not sure what your point is here, other than some welfare programs are poorly structured.
    - yummyfajitas 10y ago
      My point is that contra ajnc, there are hordes of people who "choose poverty because of an unwillingness to work".
      - anjc 10y ago
        Whatever you say Mrs Rand.
        deleted 10y ago
        [deleted]
        deleted 10y ago
antisthenes 10y ago
Realistically, the only thing in support of a ridiculous statement like "most of our 7 million unemployed are unemployed by choice" is that one article, where a person, for multiple reasons not explicitly stated in the article might not want to take a certain demanding manual labor job. I would suggest coming up with better arguments for the debunked supply side economics you're trying to push.
unprepare 10y ago
>unemployed by choice >they are unwilling to move to places where the jobs are. How exactly would an unemployed person move? security deposit/down payment, moving costs, etc all cost real money, and without an income, I'm not sure how you would expect someone to move across the country. Humans are on average risk averse - and certainly no one would advise someone to move out to california on their credit card, in hopes of immediately finding a well paying job. Its not like someone who has been unemployed for two years is so attractive that theyd be getting offers with relocation included thrown at them.
- yummyfajitas 10y ago
  How exactly would an unemployed person move? security deposit/down payment, moving costs, etc all cost real money, and without an income, I'm not sure how you would expect someone to move across the country. Strangely, illegal Mexicans seem to have solved this problem. In fact, they solved it so well that we plan to build a wall to keep them out. This is why I say we need to import a better working class. Our own leisure class seems completely incapable of doing anything!
  - unprepare 10y ago
    Have you ever met an illegal immigrant? been to their home? asked them about their experience coming to the US? Its interesting to see you assume so much about illegal immigrants, when you clearly dont have even a foundational understanding of their lives here or in mexico.
    - yummyfajitas 10y ago
      Do you have a substantive argument, or merely the vague supposition that somewhere out there there must be some personal anecdote that invalidates what I said? Could you clarify what "assume so much" refers to? I'm pretty sure that the only assumption I made is that most illegal immigrants are not non-workers collecting benefits.
      - 10y ago