4 ms·

Except Casinos design the distribution of gains so that you're manipulated into believing it'll be worth, even though you rationnaly know that it's no true.

by tnzn 10y ago

stinkytaco 10y ago
This could be said for many things: food, alcohol, mobile pay-to-play games, etc, etc. The whole advertising industry is built on making you believe something will be worth it, regardless of rational thought. Seems unfair to single out casinos.
- sydd 10y ago
  Not really, because slots and other casino games are much more deceiving. The whole thing is engineered so that you believe that you will win lots of money. But the reality is very different, this is how they must be built: - There is a state sanctioned minimum payout rate. This differs by state, but its between 80-90%. This means that on average you lose 80-90% of the $$$ you put in. - Slot machines cannot use conditional probability, in other words spins are independent. This means that the machine has no "memory" each spin is like rolling a dice. You dont have higher chance of payout just because you didnt won anything during the last hour. I've worked for a big slots company and we analyzed our customers a LOT. The big players (AKA whales) who drop thousands per month are not bored rich people in 99% of the cases, they are average people like you and me with a bad gambling addiction. And the state or the casino companies are doing nothing to help these people (why would casino companies care? This is where they are most of their revenue from). This is totally different from other fields - imagine if cigarettes would be advertised as something that makes you healthy and the state would be OK with it.
mseebach 10y ago
Suspension of disbelief, getting detached from the real world, yes, even manipulation are all perfectly fine as long as you consent to them. Ohh but there were free drinks and the lighting was just so and it made me feel so good -- so clearly defrauding the place that made me feel that way, even when I rationally knew that was what was going to happen, is perfectly OK. Are you also OK with stealing popcorn at the cinema because they manipulate you into feeling scared/happy/sad/whatever? This is why we can't have nice things.
- logfromblammo 10y ago
  I would never steal popcorn from the theater, but I would definitely smuggle in my own bag of it. The theater house rule is that no outside food or drink is allowed, but clearly the only purpose of this rule is to support the brazen markup of food and drink at the theater's own concession stand. I find it difficult to find any harm to the theater in eating smuggled popcorn rather than popcorn purchased on the premises, even when playing Devil's advocate as hard as I possibly can. My worst attempts even end up replacing 90% of the theater employees with a row of vending machines and a subway-style turnstile.
  - nrclark 10y ago
    Agreed that there isn't really any harm in a generalized way. You might be surprised to learn that movie theaters (as they're currently operated) don't really get much from the ticket sales, however. I have a friend who used to be a supervisor at movie theater, and he told me that ~80% of the theater's ticket proceeds went directly to the movie distributor. This is apparently normal in the movie industry. If concessions went away, theaters would probably need to raise their ticket prices a lot. Even if you drastically cut the employees, there's still rent/taxes/insurance/cleaning. The last two could also conceivably go up in price if it became normal to bring in your own food.
  - zem 10y ago
    > I find it difficult to find any harm to the theater in eating smuggled popcorn rather than popcorn purchased on the premises, even when playing Devil's advocate as hard as I possibly can. economics of movie theatres: https://arstechnica.com/uncategorized/2006/01/5905-2/ https://arstechnica.com/uncategorized/2006/01/5905-2/
dghughes 10y ago
Casinos don't design the games and the games are highly regulated by outside regulators.
- cardiffspaceman 10y ago
  Games are examined closely by Nevada regulators and cannot be deployed unless those regulators are happy with them. The examination includes study of the code inside. Almost like FDA process from what I recall of both in the 80's.

Except Casinos design the distribution of gains so that you're manipulated into believing it'll be worth, even though you rationnaly know that it's no true.

by tnzn 10y ago

Except Casinos design the distribution of gains so that you're manipulated into believing it'll be worth, even though you rationnaly know that it's no true.

stinkytaco 10y ago

This could be said for many things: food, alcohol, mobile pay-to-play games, etc, etc. The whole advertising industry is built on making you believe something will be worth it, regardless of rational thought. Seems unfair to single out casinos.

sydd 10y ago
Not really, because slots and other casino games are much more deceiving. The whole thing is engineered so that you believe that you will win lots of money. But the reality is very different, this is how they must be built: - There is a state sanctioned minimum payout rate. This differs by state, but its between 80-90%. This means that on average you lose 80-90% of the $$$ you put in. - Slot machines cannot use conditional probability, in other words spins are independent. This means that the machine has no "memory" each spin is like rolling a dice. You dont have higher chance of payout just because you didnt won anything during the last hour. I've worked for a big slots company and we analyzed our customers a LOT. The big players (AKA whales) who drop thousands per month are not bored rich people in 99% of the cases, they are average people like you and me with a bad gambling addiction. And the state or the casino companies are doing nothing to help these people (why would casino companies care? This is where they are most of their revenue from). This is totally different from other fields - imagine if cigarettes would be advertised as something that makes you healthy and the state would be OK with it.

mseebach 10y ago

Suspension of disbelief, getting detached from the real world, yes, even manipulation are all perfectly fine as long as you consent to them. Ohh but there were free drinks and the lighting was just so and it made me feel so good -- so clearly defrauding the place that made me feel that way, even when I rationally knew that was what was going to happen, is perfectly OK. Are you also OK with stealing popcorn at the cinema because they manipulate you into feeling scared/happy/sad/whatever? This is why we can't have nice things.

logfromblammo 10y ago
I would never steal popcorn from the theater, but I would definitely smuggle in my own bag of it. The theater house rule is that no outside food or drink is allowed, but clearly the only purpose of this rule is to support the brazen markup of food and drink at the theater's own concession stand. I find it difficult to find any harm to the theater in eating smuggled popcorn rather than popcorn purchased on the premises, even when playing Devil's advocate as hard as I possibly can. My worst attempts even end up replacing 90% of the theater employees with a row of vending machines and a subway-style turnstile.
- nrclark 10y ago
  Agreed that there isn't really any harm in a generalized way. You might be surprised to learn that movie theaters (as they're currently operated) don't really get much from the ticket sales, however. I have a friend who used to be a supervisor at movie theater, and he told me that ~80% of the theater's ticket proceeds went directly to the movie distributor. This is apparently normal in the movie industry. If concessions went away, theaters would probably need to raise their ticket prices a lot. Even if you drastically cut the employees, there's still rent/taxes/insurance/cleaning. The last two could also conceivably go up in price if it became normal to bring in your own food.
- zem 10y ago
  > I find it difficult to find any harm to the theater in eating smuggled popcorn rather than popcorn purchased on the premises, even when playing Devil's advocate as hard as I possibly can. economics of movie theatres: https://arstechnica.com/uncategorized/2006/01/5905-2/ https://arstechnica.com/uncategorized/2006/01/5905-2/

dghughes 10y ago

Casinos don't design the games and the games are highly regulated by outside regulators.

cardiffspaceman 10y ago
Games are examined closely by Nevada regulators and cannot be deployed unless those regulators are happy with them. The examination includes study of the code inside. Almost like FDA process from what I recall of both in the 80's.