5 ms·

Millennial here. I actively don't want to own. I don't want to have to worry about paying for my own maintenance or landscaping. I rent a townhouse in the subu

by amyjess 10y ago

Millennial here. I actively don't want to own. I don't want to have to worry about paying for my own maintenance or landscaping. I rent a townhouse in the suburbs, and I'm perfectly happy with it. I guess I kinda split the difference between the "stereotypical Millennial" and the reality the article points out: I prefer living in the burbs, but I don't want to own. Here's something that happened to me last month: something in my downstairs toilet broke, and it caused the toilet to repeatedly fill up its tank and dump it on the floor. Imagine my shock when I came downstairs to find that the carpet on a third of my first floor was soaked through, with the bathroom having a few inches of standing water. What did I do? I pulled out my phone and called the leasing office, telling them I had a plumbing emergency. Within an hour, the maintenance guy was here, and he fixed my toilet at ho cost to me. He also told me he was sending for a guy with a wetvac. An hour later, the carpet cleaner showed up to wetvac the carpet and replace the padding, again at no cost to me. Also, in the past I've had several problems with my air conditioner. I've had the fan die, I've had the AC unit die, I've had the internal AC unit start dripping water on the carpet. All of those times, I just called the leasing office, and they sent someone out to fix it at no cost to me. Meanwhile, one of my friends who owns his own house has ranted on Facebook several times about how his AC problems are bankrupting him, and he's already sunk five figures into replacing stuff. Why would I ever want to own when I get free maintenance and don't have to worry about a down payment?

andrewmcwatters 10y ago
Because in the long term you spend dramatically more money. You will constantly have to move when rent increases. You will raise a family with children never having a single frame of reference for what "home" is or was. You are at the mercy of the market. You own no land. A sub-commoner among commoners.
- amyjess 10y ago
  > Because in the long term you spend dramatically more money. Doesn't matter if I don't have the cash on hand to afford to replace a dead AC unit in addition to having to make a mortgage payment that month. A fixed monthly rent payment is easier to budget for than having to worry about every unplanned maintenance emergency, even if the rent payment is larger over the course of decades. I looked up my friend's post about his AC problems... he was looking at $3-6k when his compressor died ($6k for a new unit; if he can just replace the compressor, $2k for parts, another $1k for installation), and that was after his AC broke three times the previous year. We live in Texas. Air conditioners break all the time because the massive heat we get in the summers (100°F for several weeks isn't uncommon) places a huge strain on the AC. > You will constantly have to move when rent increases. I've lived in the same place for a decade. My salary has risen with rent. If I ever move, it'll be because I want a change, not because I'll be priced out of my current place. > You will raise a family with children never having a single frame of reference for what "home" is or was. See above. Also, I'm childfree (I've even chemically sterilized myself), so I'll have no children to raise in any kind of home. On top of that, I've seen homeowners who sell their home and move every few years because they keep taking jobs out of state. > You are at the mercy of the market. So are homeowners. Remember the subprime crisis a decade ago? Remember all the people who ended up with underwater mortgages because their property values fell? Can you imagine being stuck with owning a home that's worth significantly less than what you owe after you've lost your job and can't find a new job that pays enough to afford your mortgage payment? > You own no land. That's an awfully medieval way of thinking, and it doesn't apply to the modern world. You could say the same thing about people who own luxury condos in New York and San Francisco. "You own no land" is just as relevant to me as "you own no cattle". > A sub-commoner among commoners. And that's just unsubstantive rhetoric.
  - andrewmcwatters 10y ago
    If one has a problem replacing an AC and they own a home, they're just bad with money. I live in Arizona. I understand, it's called an emergency fund. Most people do not want to move frequently. I think you'll also find most people do not want to be childfree. Homeowners are not at the mercy of the market. People paying down a mortgage are not true homeowners. They are paying off a mortgage. "Modern world" or not, "serfs" still exist, and they certainly exist in the perception of others looking outward onto other people's lifestyles. You can absolutely say the same thing about people who own luxury condos. They're being luxury charged for something they don't own. You don't own land? You don't own a house? What about a car? You lease that, too? Lifestyle choices stop being lifestyle choices when you can't afford the alternatives.
theandrewbailey 10y ago
The money you pay for a place you rent is gone. The money you pay for a place you own you keep. Since it's your place (and not a cost saving corporation's place), pay a bit more for quality stuff that doesn't break.
- dragonwriter 10y ago
  > The money you pay for a place you own you keep Well, no, you keep the place itself, whose value may be the same, more, or less than the money you paid for it.
- amyjess 10y ago
  You don't always get to enjoy the value of the place you own, though. Let's say you buy a house with the intent to live there the rest of your life, and you make good on that. You pay mortgage every month for X years, then you continue paying property tax. You never see a dime back. Let's say you buy a house and then a few years later you take a job out of state, so you sell your house and buy a new one. Most of the money you made by selling your old house goes towards paying the rest of your mortgage, and most of the rest goes into the down payment of your new house. And if your property values plummeted since you bought it (e.g. thanks to an economic crash or a natural disaster), you may very well end up still owing money on your mortgage even after you sell the house. If you actually want to keep your money, then your best hope is to wait until your mortgage is paid off, sell your house, then move into a house that's worth much less than your old one, and pocket the difference. But that takes decades; my mom had a 30-year mortgage on her house! She didn't get to stop making mortgage payments until she was 60! > pay a bit more for quality stuff that doesn't break. I live in Texas. Air conditioners here break down constantly because of the summer heat. When you have consecutive weeks of 100°F+ temps, that puts a lot of strain on the AC.
maxsilver 10y ago
> Why would I ever want to own when I get free maintenance and don't have to worry about a down payment? Because in fifteen years, you'll be paying 2x to 3x your current rent, but your neighbor who owns his/her place will still be paying the 1x rate you pay today. That's why common advice is "rent for short term, buy for long term" (for various definitions of "short" and "long"). --- If maintenance is your sore spot, you can hire maintenance and insurance services for your own property. Unless your landlord is personally fixing your problems, that's likely exactly what he/she is doing too.
- marchenko 10y ago
  Even if your rent remains relatively low, if you find yourself forced out of that apartment you will suddenly be confronted with a much higher market rate. This can be quite an adjustment if you have taken on other fixed expenses afforded by your long-term below-market rent.
- marssaxman 10y ago
  Do you seriously expect your life to have changed so little over the course of the next fifteen years that you'll still want to have exactly the same living arrangement? That sounds like a serious constraint. Being that locked in makes me feel really nervous. Life just isn't that predictable.
  - maxsilver 10y ago
    > Do you seriously expect your life to have changed so little over the course of the next fifteen years that you'll still want to have exactly the same living arrangement? No, of course not. If life changes, you sell it.
acconrad 10y ago
> Why would I ever want to own when I get free maintenance and don't have to worry about a down payment? Because my mortgage (aka rent) hasn't gone up in 3 years...in fact it's actually gone down because I refinanced and is now cheaper for me to own than what I would have paid to rent in this area. Add to that the considerable appreciation on my home, and what you've got is a recipe for long-term wealth.
dragonwriter 10y ago
> Why would I ever want to own when I get free maintenance and don't have to worry about a down payment? You don't get free maintenance, the whole cost of maintenance, as well as all other costs of ownership of the unit, as well as as much profit as the owner can get away with, are already included in your rent.

by amyjess 10y ago

andrewmcwatters 10y ago

Because in the long term you spend dramatically more money. You will constantly have to move when rent increases. You will raise a family with children never having a single frame of reference for what "home" is or was. You are at the mercy of the market. You own no land. A sub-commoner among commoners.

amyjess 10y ago
> Because in the long term you spend dramatically more money. Doesn't matter if I don't have the cash on hand to afford to replace a dead AC unit in addition to having to make a mortgage payment that month. A fixed monthly rent payment is easier to budget for than having to worry about every unplanned maintenance emergency, even if the rent payment is larger over the course of decades. I looked up my friend's post about his AC problems... he was looking at $3-6k when his compressor died ($6k for a new unit; if he can just replace the compressor, $2k for parts, another $1k for installation), and that was after his AC broke three times the previous year. We live in Texas. Air conditioners break all the time because the massive heat we get in the summers (100°F for several weeks isn't uncommon) places a huge strain on the AC. > You will constantly have to move when rent increases. I've lived in the same place for a decade. My salary has risen with rent. If I ever move, it'll be because I want a change, not because I'll be priced out of my current place. > You will raise a family with children never having a single frame of reference for what "home" is or was. See above. Also, I'm childfree (I've even chemically sterilized myself), so I'll have no children to raise in any kind of home. On top of that, I've seen homeowners who sell their home and move every few years because they keep taking jobs out of state. > You are at the mercy of the market. So are homeowners. Remember the subprime crisis a decade ago? Remember all the people who ended up with underwater mortgages because their property values fell? Can you imagine being stuck with owning a home that's worth significantly less than what you owe after you've lost your job and can't find a new job that pays enough to afford your mortgage payment? > You own no land. That's an awfully medieval way of thinking, and it doesn't apply to the modern world. You could say the same thing about people who own luxury condos in New York and San Francisco. "You own no land" is just as relevant to me as "you own no cattle". > A sub-commoner among commoners. And that's just unsubstantive rhetoric.
- andrewmcwatters 10y ago
  If one has a problem replacing an AC and they own a home, they're just bad with money. I live in Arizona. I understand, it's called an emergency fund. Most people do not want to move frequently. I think you'll also find most people do not want to be childfree. Homeowners are not at the mercy of the market. People paying down a mortgage are not true homeowners. They are paying off a mortgage. "Modern world" or not, "serfs" still exist, and they certainly exist in the perception of others looking outward onto other people's lifestyles. You can absolutely say the same thing about people who own luxury condos. They're being luxury charged for something they don't own. You don't own land? You don't own a house? What about a car? You lease that, too? Lifestyle choices stop being lifestyle choices when you can't afford the alternatives.

theandrewbailey 10y ago

The money you pay for a place you rent is gone. The money you pay for a place you own you keep. Since it's your place (and not a cost saving corporation's place), pay a bit more for quality stuff that doesn't break.

dragonwriter 10y ago
> The money you pay for a place you own you keep Well, no, you keep the place itself, whose value may be the same, more, or less than the money you paid for it.
amyjess 10y ago
You don't always get to enjoy the value of the place you own, though. Let's say you buy a house with the intent to live there the rest of your life, and you make good on that. You pay mortgage every month for X years, then you continue paying property tax. You never see a dime back. Let's say you buy a house and then a few years later you take a job out of state, so you sell your house and buy a new one. Most of the money you made by selling your old house goes towards paying the rest of your mortgage, and most of the rest goes into the down payment of your new house. And if your property values plummeted since you bought it (e.g. thanks to an economic crash or a natural disaster), you may very well end up still owing money on your mortgage even after you sell the house. If you actually want to keep your money, then your best hope is to wait until your mortgage is paid off, sell your house, then move into a house that's worth much less than your old one, and pocket the difference. But that takes decades; my mom had a 30-year mortgage on her house! She didn't get to stop making mortgage payments until she was 60! > pay a bit more for quality stuff that doesn't break. I live in Texas. Air conditioners here break down constantly because of the summer heat. When you have consecutive weeks of 100°F+ temps, that puts a lot of strain on the AC.

maxsilver 10y ago

> Why would I ever want to own when I get free maintenance and don't have to worry about a down payment? Because in fifteen years, you'll be paying 2x to 3x your current rent, but your neighbor who owns his/her place will still be paying the 1x rate you pay today. That's why common advice is "rent for short term, buy for long term" (for various definitions of "short" and "long"). --- If maintenance is your sore spot, you can hire maintenance and insurance services for your own property. Unless your landlord is personally fixing your problems, that's likely exactly what he/she is doing too.

marchenko 10y ago
Even if your rent remains relatively low, if you find yourself forced out of that apartment you will suddenly be confronted with a much higher market rate. This can be quite an adjustment if you have taken on other fixed expenses afforded by your long-term below-market rent.
marssaxman 10y ago
Do you seriously expect your life to have changed so little over the course of the next fifteen years that you'll still want to have exactly the same living arrangement? That sounds like a serious constraint. Being that locked in makes me feel really nervous. Life just isn't that predictable.
- maxsilver 10y ago
  > Do you seriously expect your life to have changed so little over the course of the next fifteen years that you'll still want to have exactly the same living arrangement? No, of course not. If life changes, you sell it.

acconrad 10y ago

> Why would I ever want to own when I get free maintenance and don't have to worry about a down payment? Because my mortgage (aka rent) hasn't gone up in 3 years...in fact it's actually gone down because I refinanced and is now cheaper for me to own than what I would have paid to rent in this area. Add to that the considerable appreciation on my home, and what you've got is a recipe for long-term wealth.

dragonwriter 10y ago

> Why would I ever want to own when I get free maintenance and don't have to worry about a down payment? You don't get free maintenance, the whole cost of maintenance, as well as all other costs of ownership of the unit, as well as as much profit as the owner can get away with, are already included in your rent.