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>As far as I can see, it would just create jobs that Americans won't or can't do. I see this stated often, largely by people who have never worked these types

by Inconel 10y ago

>As far as I can see, it would just create jobs that Americans won't or can't do. I see this stated often, largely by people who have never worked these types of jobs, and for the record I'm not saying that this is the case with you, but it really doesn't match my own experiences. I've worked as a janitor in a super market, a landscaper, a manual laborer in construction, a laborer in the Central Valley on a farm, as well as a dishwasher, all in CA, and while my coworkers were mostly Hispanic, and some were undocumented, many were white, black or Asian and born in the US. These were all minimum wage or below jobs so I'm not sure were this idea is coming from. When people are poor and desperate, they will usually take any work they can get regardless of immigration status or citizenship.

scholia 10y ago
I've done those sorts of jobs, admittedly when I was a student so they were only temporary.... It remains the case that lots of Americans do not have jobs, while lots of immigrants do have jobs. I'm sure there are many complex reasons for this, but it's still not obvious to me that unemployed Americans would do the jobs that are currently done by people who are so "poor and desperate, they will usually take any work they can get regardless of immigration status or citizenship".
akiselev 10y ago
Your experiences are directly contradicted by Alabama. In 2011, the state passed HB56, a law that criminalized everything from hiring or renting to an illegal immigrant to accepting them into a state school. Before it was neutered by the courts, tens of thousands of illegal immigrants fled the state and the agricultural industry nearly collapsed when farmers couldn't find labor willing to work in crap conditions for low pay. There was a barrage of news stories for almost two years about how farmers had to watch as their crops died in the fields with no one to harvest them. Meanwhile, unemployment fell from 9.2% to 8.7% due almost entirely to the automotive industry (which doesn't really hire illegal immigrants) with no change in construction, agriculture, etc. Afaik the agricultural industry in Alabama still hasn't recovered from the shock, even though the majority of those who left returned by 2015.
- sidlls 10y ago
  That doesn't contradict anything. All it means is there weren't enough desperately poor Americans looking for the work. Improve the working conditions and raise the pay and the number of Americans interested increases. Unfortunately because of other American policy related to agriculture this is difficult for some companies to do. Basically what the Alabama law proved is that companies aren't willing to provide sufficient quality working conditions and pay to entice American workers. The specific job may be a factor in that, but that isn't something this event proves anything about.
- briandear 10y ago
  "For low pay.." Exactly. If the cost to produce something exceeds its profit, then either the prices must rise or the business closes. Why do you think California is so fiercely protective of illegals? Because one of their major industries is agriculture. They have a competitive advantage against states like Alabama because of their unwillingness to enforce the law. Essentially California is stealing from Alabama as they are taking advantage of below-market labor to harm competitors. A lot of the $15 minimum wage advocates are in California -- yet nary a peep about minimum wage violations by the agricultural industry there. If there were actually an enforced $15 minimum wage, Alabama would be competitive agin because they'd be on equal footing with labor costs (and more competitive because of lower regulatory costs and taxes.) Illegals working California fields aren't making anywhere near $15 per hour. Hiring illegal aliens is quite simply a means to avoid minimum wage.

by Inconel 10y ago

scholia 10y ago

I've done those sorts of jobs, admittedly when I was a student so they were only temporary.... It remains the case that lots of Americans do not have jobs, while lots of immigrants do have jobs. I'm sure there are many complex reasons for this, but it's still not obvious to me that unemployed Americans would do the jobs that are currently done by people who are so "poor and desperate, they will usually take any work they can get regardless of immigration status or citizenship".

akiselev 10y ago

Your experiences are directly contradicted by Alabama. In 2011, the state passed HB56, a law that criminalized everything from hiring or renting to an illegal immigrant to accepting them into a state school. Before it was neutered by the courts, tens of thousands of illegal immigrants fled the state and the agricultural industry nearly collapsed when farmers couldn't find labor willing to work in crap conditions for low pay. There was a barrage of news stories for almost two years about how farmers had to watch as their crops died in the fields with no one to harvest them. Meanwhile, unemployment fell from 9.2% to 8.7% due almost entirely to the automotive industry (which doesn't really hire illegal immigrants) with no change in construction, agriculture, etc. Afaik the agricultural industry in Alabama still hasn't recovered from the shock, even though the majority of those who left returned by 2015.

sidlls 10y ago
That doesn't contradict anything. All it means is there weren't enough desperately poor Americans looking for the work. Improve the working conditions and raise the pay and the number of Americans interested increases. Unfortunately because of other American policy related to agriculture this is difficult for some companies to do. Basically what the Alabama law proved is that companies aren't willing to provide sufficient quality working conditions and pay to entice American workers. The specific job may be a factor in that, but that isn't something this event proves anything about.
briandear 10y ago
"For low pay.." Exactly. If the cost to produce something exceeds its profit, then either the prices must rise or the business closes. Why do you think California is so fiercely protective of illegals? Because one of their major industries is agriculture. They have a competitive advantage against states like Alabama because of their unwillingness to enforce the law. Essentially California is stealing from Alabama as they are taking advantage of below-market labor to harm competitors. A lot of the $15 minimum wage advocates are in California -- yet nary a peep about minimum wage violations by the agricultural industry there. If there were actually an enforced $15 minimum wage, Alabama would be competitive agin because they'd be on equal footing with labor costs (and more competitive because of lower regulatory costs and taxes.) Illegals working California fields aren't making anywhere near $15 per hour. Hiring illegal aliens is quite simply a means to avoid minimum wage.