4 ms·

OH and CA aren't swing states.

hirsin 10y ago
Ohio is one of the most notorious swing states. 538 lists them as Colorado, Florida, Iowa, Michigan, Minnesota, Ohio, Nevada, New Hampshire, North Carolina, Pennsylvania, Virginia, and Wisconsin
- WildUtah 10y ago
  Trump won Ohio 51-43. If that swings all the way back into competitive territory, his re-election is doomed anyway. Just because a state is a swing state with a regular Republican (like Ohio or Colorado) doesn't mean it's a swing state when a very abnormal Republican like Trump is running.
  - meddlepal 10y ago
    I'm not sure we'll ever see a "normal" Republican or Democrat again win a presidential election. Trump has paved a path forward for modern campaigns to run off extreme rhetoric and FUD as a means to mobilize their voting base.
  - mateo411 10y ago
    Yes, and Obama won Ohio in 2012 by 3 percentage points. He also won it in 2008. However, George W Bush won it in 2004.
scholia 10y ago
Why is that important? You're welcome to substitute any states you like.... The fact is that many migrants are willing to risk destitution or even death to relocate, and they will work their socks off at menial jobs for a better life (for their children in particular). How many unemployed American workers are doing the same?
- toomuchtodo 10y ago
  Why should you have to work a shit job because someone from another country will? Start prosecuting employers of illegal immigrants, and you'll see the wage floor rise. Employers are not entitled to cheap labor. Advocating for such an environment is why the US has a pseudo-populist president now.
  - scholia 10y ago
    Sorry, I thought the claim was that removing immigrants would create more jobs for Americans. As far as I can see, it would just create jobs that Americans won't or can't do. And while you can raise the wage-floor, that increases costs, which may well raise prices....
    - Inconel 10y ago
      >As far as I can see, it would just create jobs that Americans won't or can't do. I see this stated often, largely by people who have never worked these types of jobs, and for the record I'm not saying that this is the case with you, but it really doesn't match my own experiences. I've worked as a janitor in a super market, a landscaper, a manual laborer in construction, a laborer in the Central Valley on a farm, as well as a dishwasher, all in CA, and while my coworkers were mostly Hispanic, and some were undocumented, many were white, black or Asian and born in the US. These were all minimum wage or below jobs so I'm not sure were this idea is coming from. When people are poor and desperate, they will usually take any work they can get regardless of immigration status or citizenship.
      - scholia 10y ago
        I've done those sorts of jobs, admittedly when I was a student so they were only temporary.... It remains the case that lots of Americans do not have jobs, while lots of immigrants do have jobs. I'm sure there are many complex reasons for this, but it's still not obvious to me that unemployed Americans would do the jobs that are currently done by people who are so "poor and desperate, they will usually take any work they can get regardless of immigration status or citizenship".
andrewmutz 10y ago
Ohio wasn't a swing state this cycle, but has been one for the last 20 years or so.
- TheGirondin 10y ago
  OH defiantly was swing state - Real Clear Politics had them switching sides frequently.

Ohio is one of the most notorious swing states. 538 lists them as Colorado, Florida, Iowa, Michigan, Minnesota, Ohio, Nevada, New Hampshire, North Carolina, Pennsylvania, Virginia, and Wisconsin

WildUtah 10y ago
Trump won Ohio 51-43. If that swings all the way back into competitive territory, his re-election is doomed anyway. Just because a state is a swing state with a regular Republican (like Ohio or Colorado) doesn't mean it's a swing state when a very abnormal Republican like Trump is running.
- meddlepal 10y ago
  I'm not sure we'll ever see a "normal" Republican or Democrat again win a presidential election. Trump has paved a path forward for modern campaigns to run off extreme rhetoric and FUD as a means to mobilize their voting base.
- mateo411 10y ago
  Yes, and Obama won Ohio in 2012 by 3 percentage points. He also won it in 2008. However, George W Bush won it in 2004.

scholia 10y ago

Why is that important? You're welcome to substitute any states you like.... The fact is that many migrants are willing to risk destitution or even death to relocate, and they will work their socks off at menial jobs for a better life (for their children in particular). How many unemployed American workers are doing the same?

toomuchtodo 10y ago
Why should you have to work a shit job because someone from another country will? Start prosecuting employers of illegal immigrants, and you'll see the wage floor rise. Employers are not entitled to cheap labor. Advocating for such an environment is why the US has a pseudo-populist president now.
- scholia 10y ago
  Sorry, I thought the claim was that removing immigrants would create more jobs for Americans. As far as I can see, it would just create jobs that Americans won't or can't do. And while you can raise the wage-floor, that increases costs, which may well raise prices....
  - Inconel 10y ago
    >As far as I can see, it would just create jobs that Americans won't or can't do. I see this stated often, largely by people who have never worked these types of jobs, and for the record I'm not saying that this is the case with you, but it really doesn't match my own experiences. I've worked as a janitor in a super market, a landscaper, a manual laborer in construction, a laborer in the Central Valley on a farm, as well as a dishwasher, all in CA, and while my coworkers were mostly Hispanic, and some were undocumented, many were white, black or Asian and born in the US. These were all minimum wage or below jobs so I'm not sure were this idea is coming from. When people are poor and desperate, they will usually take any work they can get regardless of immigration status or citizenship.
    - scholia 10y ago
      I've done those sorts of jobs, admittedly when I was a student so they were only temporary.... It remains the case that lots of Americans do not have jobs, while lots of immigrants do have jobs. I'm sure there are many complex reasons for this, but it's still not obvious to me that unemployed Americans would do the jobs that are currently done by people who are so "poor and desperate, they will usually take any work they can get regardless of immigration status or citizenship".

andrewmutz 10y ago

Ohio wasn't a swing state this cycle, but has been one for the last 20 years or so.

TheGirondin 10y ago
OH defiantly was swing state - Real Clear Politics had them switching sides frequently.