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> I think claims of sneaky and absurd behavior Such as following the law? a) there is no "sterile transit" in the US b) there is a "no fly list" What do you

by adekok 10y ago

> I think claims of sneaky and absurd behavior Such as following the law? a) there is no "sterile transit" in the US b) there is a "no fly list" What do you think happens to someone who's on the "no fly list" and lands in the US? They get milk and cookies? https://www.cbp.gov/travel/cbp-search-authority https://www.cbp.gov/travel/cbp-search-authority s to identify and interdict persons who have already committed or may potentially commit a terrorist act in the future. Or this: https://www.quora.com/What-happens-to-the-passengers-crew-on-an-airliner-forced-to-make-an-emergency-landing-in-a-country-and-their-passports-lack-a-valid-entry-visa https://www.quora.com/What-happens-to-the-passengers-crew-on... So... you're saying they have the legal right to arrest people, and people will land in the States when they are banned from entry, but that it (a) has never happened, or (b) never will happen? Come on... there's being skeptical, and there's being so closed minded that reality can't get in,

morgante 10y ago
Your original comment made it seem like individual passengers would be targeted. It's growing increasingly clear that you're not engaging in good faith. Instead of providing any evidence of this actually happening, you continue to insist on snark and vague accusations. > a) there is no "sterile transit" in the US There isn't, but that is completely immaterial: an international flight is extremely unlikely to include only a single non-American. In such a situation, it's absurd to claim that CBP would board and arrest a single non-American. Your Quora link doesn't support your point. It makes it clear that there are sane procedures in place (ideally, passengers never deplane) and that CBP doesn't board planes and arrest people for accidentally entering the US. Until you can provide a single example of this actually happening (someone being arrested for illegally entering the US after an emergency landing), I'm going to stop engaging with your FUD.
- adekok 10y ago
  > an international flight is extremely unlikely to include only a single non-American. In such a situation, it's absurd to claim that CBP would board and arrest a single non-American. <sigh> I was wondering if you could read my messages as written. It is not absurd to suggest that someone on the no-fly list, or someone previously refused a visa, or someone with an arrest warrant in the US would be arrested in such a situation. > Your Quora link doesn't support your point. It makes it clear that there are sane procedures in place (ideally, passengers never deplane) and that CBP doesn't board planes and arrest people for accidentally entering the US. It shows that people involuntarily entering the States are processed by the CBP. To repeat my last question, which you side-stepped: you're saying they have the legal right to arrest people, and people will land in the States when they are banned from entry, but that it (a) has never happened, or (b) never will happen? Only someone with an entirely closed mind would deny that it would never happen. The fact that I can't find which article I read (years ago) is almost irrelevant. The laws permit them to do this, and no reasonable person would deny that the CBP would always sit idly by while someone on the no-fly list, or someone previously refused a visa, or someone with an arrest warrant in the US was in front of them. > I'm going to stop engaging with your FUD. Yeah, showing that the CBP (a) has the power to do something, and (b) has used that power... is FUD. What, exactly, is wrong with you?
  - morgante 10y ago
    The burden of proof is on you. If something is common and frequent, it really shouldn't be this hard to find evidence. > Yeah, showing that the CBP (a) has the power to do something, and (b) has used that power... is FUD. All you've shown is that the CBP has the power. You've yet to provide any evidence of someone being arrested solely for involuntarily entering the US.
    - adekok 10y ago
      > If something is common and frequent, Did I say it was "common and frequent"? No. Why do you feel the need to lie in order to "disprove" my position? Get off your high horse.
      - miles 10y ago
        Did I say it was "common and frequent"? No. In fairness, you said: There are well known stories about planes making unscheduled landings in the US (emergency, storm, delays, etc). Cue CBP opening the front doors, walking down the aisle, and pulling one guy off the plane. I'd also be interested in hearing about these well-known stories if you or someone else wouldn't mind sharing a link or two.
        adekok 10y ago
        I've looked, and can't find anything. That doesn't necessarily disprove what I've said, it just makes it unsupported. I still stand by my claims that the CPB has the legal power to do this. And that it is very likely they either have used that power in the past, or that they will in the future. I also find it disappointing that previous comments denied such claims as "FUD", and others outright lied about my position. The psychology of this is simple: Let's say you have an alcoholic "Uncle Bob" who shows up at every family gathering, gets drunk, gropes people, and passes out after throwing up in public. If you decide that you don't want him at your house next Christmas... it's your fault. You are the bad guy. The entire family will gang up on you, and punish you for bringing the abuse to light.
      - 10y ago
jzwinck 10y ago
Laws are rarely fully or evenly applied. Even if the law says something must be done it might still not be done. For example there are many thousands of people every year who are not allowed to be in the US but who self-identify as working in the US by paying income tax. By your logic they would be deported. Mostly, they are not.
- adekok 10y ago
  Don't be ridiculous. I'm not saying that in every single case the CPB would deport someone. I'm saying that it's happened. Can you not do simple logic?

by adekok 10y ago

morgante 10y ago

Your original comment made it seem like individual passengers would be targeted. It's growing increasingly clear that you're not engaging in good faith. Instead of providing any evidence of this actually happening, you continue to insist on snark and vague accusations. > a) there is no "sterile transit" in the US There isn't, but that is completely immaterial: an international flight is extremely unlikely to include only a single non-American. In such a situation, it's absurd to claim that CBP would board and arrest a single non-American. Your Quora link doesn't support your point. It makes it clear that there are sane procedures in place (ideally, passengers never deplane) and that CBP doesn't board planes and arrest people for accidentally entering the US. Until you can provide a single example of this actually happening (someone being arrested for illegally entering the US after an emergency landing), I'm going to stop engaging with your FUD.

adekok 10y ago
> an international flight is extremely unlikely to include only a single non-American. In such a situation, it's absurd to claim that CBP would board and arrest a single non-American. <sigh> I was wondering if you could read my messages as written. It is not absurd to suggest that someone on the no-fly list, or someone previously refused a visa, or someone with an arrest warrant in the US would be arrested in such a situation. > Your Quora link doesn't support your point. It makes it clear that there are sane procedures in place (ideally, passengers never deplane) and that CBP doesn't board planes and arrest people for accidentally entering the US. It shows that people involuntarily entering the States are processed by the CBP. To repeat my last question, which you side-stepped: you're saying they have the legal right to arrest people, and people will land in the States when they are banned from entry, but that it (a) has never happened, or (b) never will happen? Only someone with an entirely closed mind would deny that it would never happen. The fact that I can't find which article I read (years ago) is almost irrelevant. The laws permit them to do this, and no reasonable person would deny that the CBP would always sit idly by while someone on the no-fly list, or someone previously refused a visa, or someone with an arrest warrant in the US was in front of them. > I'm going to stop engaging with your FUD. Yeah, showing that the CBP (a) has the power to do something, and (b) has used that power... is FUD. What, exactly, is wrong with you?
- morgante 10y ago
  The burden of proof is on you. If something is common and frequent, it really shouldn't be this hard to find evidence. > Yeah, showing that the CBP (a) has the power to do something, and (b) has used that power... is FUD. All you've shown is that the CBP has the power. You've yet to provide any evidence of someone being arrested solely for involuntarily entering the US.
  - adekok 10y ago
    > If something is common and frequent, Did I say it was "common and frequent"? No. Why do you feel the need to lie in order to "disprove" my position? Get off your high horse.
    - miles 10y ago
      Did I say it was "common and frequent"? No. In fairness, you said: There are well known stories about planes making unscheduled landings in the US (emergency, storm, delays, etc). Cue CBP opening the front doors, walking down the aisle, and pulling one guy off the plane. I'd also be interested in hearing about these well-known stories if you or someone else wouldn't mind sharing a link or two.
      - adekok 10y ago
        I've looked, and can't find anything. That doesn't necessarily disprove what I've said, it just makes it unsupported. I still stand by my claims that the CPB has the legal power to do this. And that it is very likely they either have used that power in the past, or that they will in the future. I also find it disappointing that previous comments denied such claims as "FUD", and others outright lied about my position. The psychology of this is simple: Let's say you have an alcoholic "Uncle Bob" who shows up at every family gathering, gets drunk, gropes people, and passes out after throwing up in public. If you decide that you don't want him at your house next Christmas... it's your fault. You are the bad guy. The entire family will gang up on you, and punish you for bringing the abuse to light.
    - 10y ago

jzwinck 10y ago

Laws are rarely fully or evenly applied. Even if the law says something must be done it might still not be done. For example there are many thousands of people every year who are not allowed to be in the US but who self-identify as working in the US by paying income tax. By your logic they would be deported. Mostly, they are not.

adekok 10y ago
Don't be ridiculous. I'm not saying that in every single case the CPB would deport someone. I'm saying that it's happened. Can you not do simple logic?