4 ms·

These days you can get computers with Linux preinstalled. What you can't get is a computer that has both Windows and Linux preinstalled in some kind of dual bo

by marvy 10y ago

These days you can get computers with Linux preinstalled. What you can't get is a computer that has both Windows and Linux preinstalled in some kind of dual boot or VM setup. That you must still do yourself. You can get the choice to preinstall Windows, or preinstall Linux; never both.

shmerl 10y ago
> These days you can get computers with Linux preinstalled. If you look for them specially, and not from most manufacturers. Try getting one from Dell (any model, not one specific variant), Lenovo and etc. Good luck with that.
- wolfgke 10y ago
  > If you look for them specially, and not from most manufacturers. Try getting one from Dell (any model, not one specific variant), Lenovo and etc. Good luck with that. Before you complain about that, consider that every GNU/Linux nerd has strong feelings about their preferred GNU/Linux distribution (or version (such as LTS, Stable, Bleeding Edge etc.). So they will probably not be satisfied with the distribution that is installed and install their preferred one. Also there is only one or two Windows versions that the customer wants preinstalled at any given time. Only every few years (much less often than a new version of a typical GNU/Linux distribution gets released) there will be a necessity to offer a new Windows version. So if you are dreaming of PCs preinstalled with GNU/Linux for the mainstream market, first standardize on 1 or 2 distribution for, say, 95% of the market.
  - shmerl 10y ago
    > Before you complain about that, consider that every GNU/Linux nerd has strong feelings about their preferred GNU/Linux distribution (or version (such as LTS, Stable, Bleeding Edge etc.). So they will probably not be satisfied with the distribution that is installed and install their preferred one Those who have such preferences, have zero problems installing their own distro. The fact that it doesn't come pre-installed doesn't bother such users, as long as they aren't forced to pay the nasty Windows tax. We are talking about what's slowing mass Linux adoption (by those who aren't likely to ever install any OS to begin with).
    - wolfgke 10y ago
      > as long as they aren't forced to pay the nasty Windows tax. It is much simpler just not to ship any OS to customers that want to avoid the Microsoft tax (indeed some vendors sell PCs without any installed OS - in particular for enterprise customers; I also). This has the advantage that they don't have to provide support to customers that are using the installed GNU/Linux distribution. But note that avoiding the "Microsoft tax" will save you much less money, since Microsoft has contracts with large PC vendors that gets them Windows licenses even much cheaper than the "System Builder" version. Slightly exaggerated: The Windows license that they install is "nearly free" for them. So even if they offer a PC without OS, the price will not drop by a lot (if any) for the simple reason that large PC producers hardly have to pay any "Microsoft tax".
      - herbst 10y ago
        Its not about the amount. Its a more idealistic value (for me at least) i simply dont want windows and will buy the worse hardware for more money even if i can avoid owning windows.
      - shmerl 10y ago
        > it is much simpler just not to ship any OS to customers that want to avoid the Microsoft tax Simpler yes, but it would undermine MS monopolistic control. That's why MS force manufacturers not to sell such computers. Their leverage is simple. If they would sell such, MS would raise the price of Windows for them. Most give in to blackmail. See https://web.archive.org/web/20150714080353/http://www.justice.gov/atr/cases/f3800/msjudgex.htm#iiie https://web.archive.org/web/20150714080353/http://www.justic...
        marvy 10y ago
        Is that still true today? I think these days it's possible to buy a computer with no OS preinstalled from some manufacturers. It might even be slightly cheaper than the identical model with Windows. (Of course, only select models, etc.)

by marvy 10y ago

shmerl 10y ago

> These days you can get computers with Linux preinstalled. If you look for them specially, and not from most manufacturers. Try getting one from Dell (any model, not one specific variant), Lenovo and etc. Good luck with that.

wolfgke 10y ago
> If you look for them specially, and not from most manufacturers. Try getting one from Dell (any model, not one specific variant), Lenovo and etc. Good luck with that. Before you complain about that, consider that every GNU/Linux nerd has strong feelings about their preferred GNU/Linux distribution (or version (such as LTS, Stable, Bleeding Edge etc.). So they will probably not be satisfied with the distribution that is installed and install their preferred one. Also there is only one or two Windows versions that the customer wants preinstalled at any given time. Only every few years (much less often than a new version of a typical GNU/Linux distribution gets released) there will be a necessity to offer a new Windows version. So if you are dreaming of PCs preinstalled with GNU/Linux for the mainstream market, first standardize on 1 or 2 distribution for, say, 95% of the market.
- shmerl 10y ago
  > Before you complain about that, consider that every GNU/Linux nerd has strong feelings about their preferred GNU/Linux distribution (or version (such as LTS, Stable, Bleeding Edge etc.). So they will probably not be satisfied with the distribution that is installed and install their preferred one Those who have such preferences, have zero problems installing their own distro. The fact that it doesn't come pre-installed doesn't bother such users, as long as they aren't forced to pay the nasty Windows tax. We are talking about what's slowing mass Linux adoption (by those who aren't likely to ever install any OS to begin with).
  - wolfgke 10y ago
    > as long as they aren't forced to pay the nasty Windows tax. It is much simpler just not to ship any OS to customers that want to avoid the Microsoft tax (indeed some vendors sell PCs without any installed OS - in particular for enterprise customers; I also). This has the advantage that they don't have to provide support to customers that are using the installed GNU/Linux distribution. But note that avoiding the "Microsoft tax" will save you much less money, since Microsoft has contracts with large PC vendors that gets them Windows licenses even much cheaper than the "System Builder" version. Slightly exaggerated: The Windows license that they install is "nearly free" for them. So even if they offer a PC without OS, the price will not drop by a lot (if any) for the simple reason that large PC producers hardly have to pay any "Microsoft tax".
    - herbst 10y ago
      Its not about the amount. Its a more idealistic value (for me at least) i simply dont want windows and will buy the worse hardware for more money even if i can avoid owning windows.
    - shmerl 10y ago
      > it is much simpler just not to ship any OS to customers that want to avoid the Microsoft tax Simpler yes, but it would undermine MS monopolistic control. That's why MS force manufacturers not to sell such computers. Their leverage is simple. If they would sell such, MS would raise the price of Windows for them. Most give in to blackmail. See https://web.archive.org/web/20150714080353/http://www.justice.gov/atr/cases/f3800/msjudgex.htm#iiie https://web.archive.org/web/20150714080353/http://www.justic...
      - marvy 10y ago
        Is that still true today? I think these days it's possible to buy a computer with no OS preinstalled from some manufacturers. It might even be slightly cheaper than the identical model with Windows. (Of course, only select models, etc.)