6 ms·

I will relate to my observation in Harry Potter books. Harry Potter universe has time machine which we know scientifically are impossible while in the same HP u

by singham 10y ago

I will relate to my observation in Harry Potter books. Harry Potter universe has time machine which we know scientifically are impossible while in the same HP universe, Hermoine has to physically go to the forbidden library to read books. JK Rowling couldn't think of wikipedia or internet which both exist in real world but not time travel.

Tomte 10y ago
Okay, please look up and tell us the second sentence of page 37 of "Typolemik" by Willberg. You've got Wikipedia, after all!
sarreph 10y ago
I think, to expand on your point there, you can make the general observation that there is no 'WizardNet' or usage of the internet by any wizard (as far as we know). Further still°, there is a complete lack of computer technology from any of the Wizarding World™. Was this done intentionally? Were they supposed to be shunning it? Did they need it? Were they secretly Amish? That said, I think it would've been dramatically less pleasing for Harry to whip out his Nokia for the camera flashlight, instead of simply uttering 'lumos'. ° Please correct me if I am wrong for my HP knowledge is rather rusty indeed.
- detaro 10y ago
  I think the in-universe explanation is that magic messes up electric devices, and they are thus not usable in areas with a lot of magical presence. It's not really answered if that could be fixed or not, generally wizards just don't have any clue about how muggle tech works.
  - dTal 10y ago
    Which of course implies that magic is detectable using ordinary electronic equipment (even inadvertantly - would Kings Cross Starbucks notice their WiFi dropped out twice a year?) It also raises the question of how electric something has to be to not work. Flash photography works, so capacitors are seemingly okay. Even a simple one-wire telegraph system would be an improvement on owls.
    - smhost 10y ago
      I'm not sure that I want to live in a universe where a one-wire telegraph system is an "improvement" over a magical owl postal delivery system.
      - dTal 10y ago
        The owls aren't that magical - they are established to be obstructed by such mundanities as thunderstorms and glass windows. The communication latency is atrocious. To top it off they're sentient beings, presumably in finite supply, who can die in the line of duty. Interception and denial-of-service are both established to be not uncommon problems with owl communication. Come to think of it, we come across actual magical radio broadcasts at several points. Even magical password-protection of same. Why the hell do they still use owls?
        greggyb 10y ago
        We have strong cryptography and near-instant communication protocols. Why the hell is there a postal service in every country, and why is the quality of the postal service an indication of sophistication rather than lack of development in a country?
        smhost 10y ago
        No no, you're missing the point. You see, owls are quite adorable.
        mikeash 10y ago
        Superb, even.
        dTal 10y ago
        I'm not sure if this is meant to be rhetorical? Either way - ideally you have postal service AND electronic communication, and the quality of both reflect on the country. It's a fair question though - anecdotally, the two main uses for the postal service nowadays (in countries with internet access) are package deliveries and unsolicited marketing (possibly print subscriptions factor in). To my mind, the unique advantage of the Muggle postal service for personal communications, apart from the globally federated physical distribution network - the one that would make me very hesitant to scrap it - is the difficulty of conducting mass surveillance on it.
- Gaelan 10y ago
  JKR's explanation is a combination of (perceived) lack of need and a feeling of superiority. [0] [0]: https://www.pottermore.com/writing-by-jk-rowling/technology https://www.pottermore.com/writing-by-jk-rowling/technology
lars512 10y ago
May I point you to Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality, I think you'd enjoy it! http://www.hpmor.com/ http://www.hpmor.com/
- GFK_of_xmaspast 10y ago
  HPMOR is, amongst many other sins, pretty rapey.
  - aleeds 10y ago
    Would you like to elaborate?
    - GFK_of_xmaspast 10y ago
      The obvious first example is Draco's comments re: Luna in chapter 7, and also the whole Bellatrix stuff. (which is where I stopped reading). See also: https://danluu.com/su3su2u1/hpmor/ https://danluu.com/su3su2u1/hpmor/ and http://stormingtheivorytower.blogspot.com/2013_08_11_archive.html http://stormingtheivorytower.blogspot.com/2013_08_11_archive...
      - retsibsi 10y ago
        What do you mean by 'rapey' then? There's no way the book was on Draco's side when he made that comment. And I'm not sure what you mean by 'the whole Bellatrix stuff', but wasn't she a victim of the evil antagonist? If you think those bits were awkward, inappropriate, badly written, ineptly conceived, or whatever, I'm sure you'll find plenty of agreement. But calling the book 'rapey' seems to imply that it displays some kind of pro-rape message or attitude. That's a really harsh claim to make without strong evidence. edit: maybe you just mean that it contains gratuitous references to rape? I guess that's a fair opinion to hold, but I think it's clear that the Draco thing wasn't included for the fun of it, but was intended to show how messed up his upbringing/society was in a way that would genuinely shock the reader. And I can't remember exactly what happened to Bellatrix, but I also don't remember getting the sense that the book was revelling in the grisly details or anything like that.
GFK_of_xmaspast 10y ago
The HP books are not always internally consistent with regards to time, but a careful reading suggests that Harry was born in 1980 and so the books take place in the early-mid 90s.
david-given 10y ago
Compare and contrast with Diane Duane's _Young Wizards_ books (which if you liked Harry Potter you should totally read), where in the later ones the characters are using their Wizard's Manuals as instant messenging/social networking clients. Turns out that books which magically contain the information you need to know have many applications. Yes, they even go bing when a new message arrives.
pjc50 10y ago
I think the best one of those I encountered was an SF story where the navigation for FTL was done with slide rules. But demanding that fiction predict the future is unreasonable and will cause upset for you and the authors. Almost all speculative fiction is based on "what if": imagine if there was something different about the world or or our technological capabilities, what stories could we tell about them? (That's not even counting the SFF that makes no claim to be about the future or reality, but simply brings in elements for dramatic effect. That's why you can hear things in film space battles, which tend to be organised like WW2 carrier/air battles. That's why Harry Potter books make no attempt at consistency.)
- thisrod 10y ago
  > I think the best one of those I encountered was an SF story where the navigation for FTL was done with slide rules. As in, you're impressed that someone writing in the 1950s predicted information warfare?
  - pjc50 10y ago
    I can see what you're thinking, BSG passim, but no. They just hadn't predicted the miniature electronic computer.
averagewall 10y ago
Strong encryption is another thing that sci-fi authors seem to miss. For example 1998's Moonwar has people sneaking communications on laser beams instead of radio waves because spies won't be able to eavesdrop on the straight-line laser without physically going to its location. That, despite the internet already using encryption for financial transactions in real life.
- niftich 10y ago
  Yeah but how do you do key distribution and management? The physical security and "forward secrecy" (in the loose sense) afforded by an ephemeral transmission that can only be received in a fixed location is non-negligible [1]. [1] http://www.gdsatcom.com/email/3-22-11.htm http://www.gdsatcom.com/email/3-22-11.htm
- donavanm 10y ago
  Its not about encryption, and real world concerns are echoed there. Radio (or other broadcast) gives up lots of signal intelligence; times, location, correlation with other events etc. A tightly collimeted/focused media (like laser) reduces those risks while having other benefits like a reciever detecting interception via attentuation.
- kalleboo 10y ago
  I'm not sure this is what the authors had in mind, but you can imagine a post-encryption future (quantum computing or whatever lies beyond)
Isamu 10y ago
It is a central feature to the Harry Potter universe that technology is overlooked, because magic. That is why everything looks rather antiquated on the surface, because all the advances are made in magic and nobody bothers with other stuff that is perceived to be less effective or important. Almost every building is rather precariously built and even absurd in details, because there is no value put in structural engineering, you just magic it all together. Why ever would they use the Internet? They all perceive their own culture to be superior, and all their advances are bound up in magic.
taneq 10y ago
> Hermoine has to physically go to the forbidden library to read books. It's a 'forbidden library' because the books in there aren't meant to be available to the general public. You'd expect it to be locked down against scrying and other forms of remote and unauthorized access, in exactly the same way that a military data center would be locked down.

by singham 10y ago

Tomte 10y ago

Okay, please look up and tell us the second sentence of page 37 of "Typolemik" by Willberg. You've got Wikipedia, after all!

sarreph 10y ago

I think, to expand on your point there, you can make the general observation that there is no 'WizardNet' or usage of the internet by any wizard (as far as we know). Further still°, there is a complete lack of computer technology from any of the Wizarding World™. Was this done intentionally? Were they supposed to be shunning it? Did they need it? Were they secretly Amish? That said, I think it would've been dramatically less pleasing for Harry to whip out his Nokia for the camera flashlight, instead of simply uttering 'lumos'. ° Please correct me if I am wrong for my HP knowledge is rather rusty indeed.

detaro 10y ago
I think the in-universe explanation is that magic messes up electric devices, and they are thus not usable in areas with a lot of magical presence. It's not really answered if that could be fixed or not, generally wizards just don't have any clue about how muggle tech works.
- dTal 10y ago
  Which of course implies that magic is detectable using ordinary electronic equipment (even inadvertantly - would Kings Cross Starbucks notice their WiFi dropped out twice a year?) It also raises the question of how electric something has to be to not work. Flash photography works, so capacitors are seemingly okay. Even a simple one-wire telegraph system would be an improvement on owls.
  - smhost 10y ago
    I'm not sure that I want to live in a universe where a one-wire telegraph system is an "improvement" over a magical owl postal delivery system.
    - dTal 10y ago
      The owls aren't that magical - they are established to be obstructed by such mundanities as thunderstorms and glass windows. The communication latency is atrocious. To top it off they're sentient beings, presumably in finite supply, who can die in the line of duty. Interception and denial-of-service are both established to be not uncommon problems with owl communication. Come to think of it, we come across actual magical radio broadcasts at several points. Even magical password-protection of same. Why the hell do they still use owls?
      - greggyb 10y ago
        We have strong cryptography and near-instant communication protocols. Why the hell is there a postal service in every country, and why is the quality of the postal service an indication of sophistication rather than lack of development in a country?
        smhost 10y ago
        No no, you're missing the point. You see, owls are quite adorable.
        mikeash 10y ago
        Superb, even.
        dTal 10y ago
        I'm not sure if this is meant to be rhetorical? Either way - ideally you have postal service AND electronic communication, and the quality of both reflect on the country. It's a fair question though - anecdotally, the two main uses for the postal service nowadays (in countries with internet access) are package deliveries and unsolicited marketing (possibly print subscriptions factor in). To my mind, the unique advantage of the Muggle postal service for personal communications, apart from the globally federated physical distribution network - the one that would make me very hesitant to scrap it - is the difficulty of conducting mass surveillance on it.
Gaelan 10y ago
JKR's explanation is a combination of (perceived) lack of need and a feeling of superiority. [0] [0]: https://www.pottermore.com/writing-by-jk-rowling/technology https://www.pottermore.com/writing-by-jk-rowling/technology

lars512 10y ago

May I point you to Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality, I think you'd enjoy it! http://www.hpmor.com/ http://www.hpmor.com/

GFK_of_xmaspast 10y ago
HPMOR is, amongst many other sins, pretty rapey.
- aleeds 10y ago
  Would you like to elaborate?
  - GFK_of_xmaspast 10y ago
    The obvious first example is Draco's comments re: Luna in chapter 7, and also the whole Bellatrix stuff. (which is where I stopped reading). See also: https://danluu.com/su3su2u1/hpmor/ https://danluu.com/su3su2u1/hpmor/ and http://stormingtheivorytower.blogspot.com/2013_08_11_archive.html http://stormingtheivorytower.blogspot.com/2013_08_11_archive...
    - retsibsi 10y ago
      What do you mean by 'rapey' then? There's no way the book was on Draco's side when he made that comment. And I'm not sure what you mean by 'the whole Bellatrix stuff', but wasn't she a victim of the evil antagonist? If you think those bits were awkward, inappropriate, badly written, ineptly conceived, or whatever, I'm sure you'll find plenty of agreement. But calling the book 'rapey' seems to imply that it displays some kind of pro-rape message or attitude. That's a really harsh claim to make without strong evidence. edit: maybe you just mean that it contains gratuitous references to rape? I guess that's a fair opinion to hold, but I think it's clear that the Draco thing wasn't included for the fun of it, but was intended to show how messed up his upbringing/society was in a way that would genuinely shock the reader. And I can't remember exactly what happened to Bellatrix, but I also don't remember getting the sense that the book was revelling in the grisly details or anything like that.

GFK_of_xmaspast 10y ago

The HP books are not always internally consistent with regards to time, but a careful reading suggests that Harry was born in 1980 and so the books take place in the early-mid 90s.

david-given 10y ago

Compare and contrast with Diane Duane's _Young Wizards_ books (which if you liked Harry Potter you should totally read), where in the later ones the characters are using their Wizard's Manuals as instant messenging/social networking clients. Turns out that books which magically contain the information you need to know have many applications. Yes, they even go bing when a new message arrives.

pjc50 10y ago

I think the best one of those I encountered was an SF story where the navigation for FTL was done with slide rules. But demanding that fiction predict the future is unreasonable and will cause upset for you and the authors. Almost all speculative fiction is based on "what if": imagine if there was something different about the world or or our technological capabilities, what stories could we tell about them? (That's not even counting the SFF that makes no claim to be about the future or reality, but simply brings in elements for dramatic effect. That's why you can hear things in film space battles, which tend to be organised like WW2 carrier/air battles. That's why Harry Potter books make no attempt at consistency.)

thisrod 10y ago
> I think the best one of those I encountered was an SF story where the navigation for FTL was done with slide rules. As in, you're impressed that someone writing in the 1950s predicted information warfare?
- pjc50 10y ago
  I can see what you're thinking, BSG passim, but no. They just hadn't predicted the miniature electronic computer.

averagewall 10y ago

Strong encryption is another thing that sci-fi authors seem to miss. For example 1998's Moonwar has people sneaking communications on laser beams instead of radio waves because spies won't be able to eavesdrop on the straight-line laser without physically going to its location. That, despite the internet already using encryption for financial transactions in real life.

niftich 10y ago
Yeah but how do you do key distribution and management? The physical security and "forward secrecy" (in the loose sense) afforded by an ephemeral transmission that can only be received in a fixed location is non-negligible [1]. [1] http://www.gdsatcom.com/email/3-22-11.htm http://www.gdsatcom.com/email/3-22-11.htm
donavanm 10y ago
Its not about encryption, and real world concerns are echoed there. Radio (or other broadcast) gives up lots of signal intelligence; times, location, correlation with other events etc. A tightly collimeted/focused media (like laser) reduces those risks while having other benefits like a reciever detecting interception via attentuation.
kalleboo 10y ago
I'm not sure this is what the authors had in mind, but you can imagine a post-encryption future (quantum computing or whatever lies beyond)

Isamu 10y ago

It is a central feature to the Harry Potter universe that technology is overlooked, because magic. That is why everything looks rather antiquated on the surface, because all the advances are made in magic and nobody bothers with other stuff that is perceived to be less effective or important. Almost every building is rather precariously built and even absurd in details, because there is no value put in structural engineering, you just magic it all together. Why ever would they use the Internet? They all perceive their own culture to be superior, and all their advances are bound up in magic.

taneq 10y ago

> Hermoine has to physically go to the forbidden library to read books. It's a 'forbidden library' because the books in there aren't meant to be available to the general public. You'd expect it to be locked down against scrying and other forms of remote and unauthorized access, in exactly the same way that a military data center would be locked down.