4 ms·

Are you serious? Yes, exceptions exist. But they are rare. I spent a couple months in northern India (Delhi and some nearby regions) about a decade ago, chaos

by ido 10y ago

Are you serious? Yes, exceptions exist. But they are rare. I spent a couple months in northern India (Delhi and some nearby regions) about a decade ago, chaos was everywhere, all the time. Just need to step outside to experience it.

lispm 10y ago
Check out the Berlin Brandenburg Airport project. Total chaos. 15 years planning. More than ten years of construction. Maybe open 2018. Maybe. 7 years late. 7 billion Euro and rising. Not the German orderly execution you would expect. Not in time, budget and quality. Lots of corruption and incompetence. It's chaos, it just looks different.
- tormeh 10y ago
  It's the exception, though, rather than the rule. Prestigious architect/politician-driven projects always have problems and are, by default, plagued by incompetence. The only way to avoid cost overruns and delays is to not build them. There are problems with these kinds of projects even in Norway, which I suspect is the least corrupt country in existence. The BER is ridiculous, though. The specification, organization, execution and communication are all amazingly bad.
  - literallycancer 10y ago
    >Norway, which I suspect is the least corrupt country in existence You mean the country with the least perceived corruption?
- coldtea 10y ago
  >Total chaos. 15 years planning. More than ten years of construction. Maybe open 2018. Maybe. 7 years late. 7 billion Euro and rising. A public infrastructure project going late (even decades late) or not happing at all due to bad planning and over-budget is an everyday occurence in almost every country, from the US to China, and from Spain to Brazil. To give that one as an example of "total chaos" really makes the parent's point about Germany being particularly orderly.
- allendoerfer 10y ago
  BER was delayed because of safety rules and an overengineered smoke exaustion system. In other countries there would not have been the safety checks and/or the inspectors would have been bribed. BER is ridiculous, but it increased my trust in public infrastructure. At least there is a system in place that rather wastes a few billions than to create a death-trap.
oska 10y ago
No chaos in the tiffin box delivery system, which has won plaudits as ‘miraculous’ in its efficiency and reliability. [1], [2]. [1] https://www.pri.org/stories/2014-07-15/indian-meal-service-so-efficient-it-s-envy-fedex https://www.pri.org/stories/2014-07-15/indian-meal-service-s... [2] http://www.iimahd.ernet.in/publications/data/2005-09-01ravichandran.pdf http://www.iimahd.ernet.in/publications/data/2005-09-01ravic...

by ido 10y ago

lispm 10y ago

Check out the Berlin Brandenburg Airport project. Total chaos. 15 years planning. More than ten years of construction. Maybe open 2018. Maybe. 7 years late. 7 billion Euro and rising. Not the German orderly execution you would expect. Not in time, budget and quality. Lots of corruption and incompetence. It's chaos, it just looks different.

tormeh 10y ago
It's the exception, though, rather than the rule. Prestigious architect/politician-driven projects always have problems and are, by default, plagued by incompetence. The only way to avoid cost overruns and delays is to not build them. There are problems with these kinds of projects even in Norway, which I suspect is the least corrupt country in existence. The BER is ridiculous, though. The specification, organization, execution and communication are all amazingly bad.
- literallycancer 10y ago
  >Norway, which I suspect is the least corrupt country in existence You mean the country with the least perceived corruption?
coldtea 10y ago
>Total chaos. 15 years planning. More than ten years of construction. Maybe open 2018. Maybe. 7 years late. 7 billion Euro and rising. A public infrastructure project going late (even decades late) or not happing at all due to bad planning and over-budget is an everyday occurence in almost every country, from the US to China, and from Spain to Brazil. To give that one as an example of "total chaos" really makes the parent's point about Germany being particularly orderly.
allendoerfer 10y ago
BER was delayed because of safety rules and an overengineered smoke exaustion system. In other countries there would not have been the safety checks and/or the inspectors would have been bribed. BER is ridiculous, but it increased my trust in public infrastructure. At least there is a system in place that rather wastes a few billions than to create a death-trap.

oska 10y ago

No chaos in the tiffin box delivery system, which has won plaudits as ‘miraculous’ in its efficiency and reliability. [1], [2]. [1] https://www.pri.org/stories/2014-07-15/indian-meal-service-so-efficient-it-s-envy-fedex https://www.pri.org/stories/2014-07-15/indian-meal-service-s... [2] http://www.iimahd.ernet.in/publications/data/2005-09-01ravichandran.pdf http://www.iimahd.ernet.in/publications/data/2005-09-01ravic...