3 ms·

I've said this many times but the only real problem I have is the shere pain to get things to work and for uniform styling across programs. I find myself just

I've said this many times but the only real problem I have is the shere pain to get things to work and for uniform styling across programs. I find myself just using terminal applications because gparted's UI is SO different from Wireshark, FireFox, etc. There is no consistancy. There is no standard written. There is nothing. It's just a hodge-podge of "this looks good to me!" No standards = Confused Users

shiven 10y ago
You've hit the nail on the head. The lack of (enforced but painfully overrideable) standards was a fundamental contributor to fragmenting the "Linux Desktop", if there was such a thing to begin with. This coupled with the community philosophy of "one man's turd is another's lollipop", leads to a thousand flowers blooming, with none representative of a "Linux Desktop" and thus fundamentally confusing to new users in the target audience.
ryukafalz 10y ago
>I find myself just using terminal applications because gparted's UI is SO different from Wireshark, FireFox, etc. There is no consistancy. There is no standard written. There is nothing. It's just a hodge-podge of "this looks good to me!" Then use GNOME Disks, which (if you're using a distro with GNOME) is probably already included: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNOME_Disks https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNOME_Disks And GParted vs. Wireshark? Of course they look different, they're completely different tools - and most non-technical users never need to look at either one anyway. But here's Wireshark vs. macOS's disk utility, for comparison: https://imgur.com/a/V9zZC https://imgur.com/a/V9zZC
- gravypod 10y ago
  You're missing the point. Look at that top bar. What do those mean? How do I un-gray them? What do I click to start capturing packets? Look at these http://cdn2.tekgoblinmedia.com/wp-content/uploads/Restore-disk-utility-3.jpg?d8d5b3 http://cdn2.tekgoblinmedia.com/wp-content/uploads/Restore-di... https://support.apple.com/library/content/dam/edam/applecare/images/en_US/osx/preferences_overview.png https://support.apple.com/library/content/dam/edam/applecare... All icons have text. There is a uniform icon for Hard Drive. There is a uniform color scheme. There is a uniform font size. There is a uniform spacing between elements. In the macOS window you see descriptions where needed like under "First Aid" You get human-friendly lables such as "Capacity", "Used", etc. It is all presented eligantly and simply. On the left of your screen all I see are random strings of text with squigly lines next to them. Are those buttons? Can I click them? I know you have to from using wireshark before but the average person sees that and says "...well shit". Presentation is a very sensative art. HCI should be much more appreciated and people majoring in it shouldn't be relegated to VR as there are still many problems in desktop UI that needs to be fixed.
  - ryukafalz 10y ago
    >Look at that top bar. What do those mean? How do I un-gray them? What do I click to start capturing packets? I agree, yes. But notice that my screenshot was on macOS, not desktop Linux. My point was that there are design guidelines for desktop Linux apps. GNOME has them[0] and KDE has them[1]. And then there are applications that don't follow those guidelines - like Wireshark, one of the ones you referenced - regardless of platform. It's not the platform's fault, it's the app developer's decision to either make their UI conform or not. 0: https://developer.gnome.org/hig/stable/ https://developer.gnome.org/hig/stable/ 1: https://community.kde.org/KDE_Visual_Design_Group/HIG https://community.kde.org/KDE_Visual_Design_Group/HIG

shiven 10y ago

You've hit the nail on the head. The lack of (enforced but painfully overrideable) standards was a fundamental contributor to fragmenting the "Linux Desktop", if there was such a thing to begin with. This coupled with the community philosophy of "one man's turd is another's lollipop", leads to a thousand flowers blooming, with none representative of a "Linux Desktop" and thus fundamentally confusing to new users in the target audience.

ryukafalz 10y ago

>I find myself just using terminal applications because gparted's UI is SO different from Wireshark, FireFox, etc. There is no consistancy. There is no standard written. There is nothing. It's just a hodge-podge of "this looks good to me!" Then use GNOME Disks, which (if you're using a distro with GNOME) is probably already included: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNOME_Disks https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNOME_Disks And GParted vs. Wireshark? Of course they look different, they're completely different tools - and most non-technical users never need to look at either one anyway. But here's Wireshark vs. macOS's disk utility, for comparison: https://imgur.com/a/V9zZC https://imgur.com/a/V9zZC

gravypod 10y ago
You're missing the point. Look at that top bar. What do those mean? How do I un-gray them? What do I click to start capturing packets? Look at these http://cdn2.tekgoblinmedia.com/wp-content/uploads/Restore-disk-utility-3.jpg?d8d5b3 http://cdn2.tekgoblinmedia.com/wp-content/uploads/Restore-di... https://support.apple.com/library/content/dam/edam/applecare/images/en_US/osx/preferences_overview.png https://support.apple.com/library/content/dam/edam/applecare... All icons have text. There is a uniform icon for Hard Drive. There is a uniform color scheme. There is a uniform font size. There is a uniform spacing between elements. In the macOS window you see descriptions where needed like under "First Aid" You get human-friendly lables such as "Capacity", "Used", etc. It is all presented eligantly and simply. On the left of your screen all I see are random strings of text with squigly lines next to them. Are those buttons? Can I click them? I know you have to from using wireshark before but the average person sees that and says "...well shit". Presentation is a very sensative art. HCI should be much more appreciated and people majoring in it shouldn't be relegated to VR as there are still many problems in desktop UI that needs to be fixed.
- ryukafalz 10y ago
  >Look at that top bar. What do those mean? How do I un-gray them? What do I click to start capturing packets? I agree, yes. But notice that my screenshot was on macOS, not desktop Linux. My point was that there are design guidelines for desktop Linux apps. GNOME has them[0] and KDE has them[1]. And then there are applications that don't follow those guidelines - like Wireshark, one of the ones you referenced - regardless of platform. It's not the platform's fault, it's the app developer's decision to either make their UI conform or not. 0: https://developer.gnome.org/hig/stable/ https://developer.gnome.org/hig/stable/ 1: https://community.kde.org/KDE_Visual_Design_Group/HIG https://community.kde.org/KDE_Visual_Design_Group/HIG