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If you don't buy anything, just go past the queue at the checkout line. > There was immediate pandemonium, Try to sit in the front seat of a cab in the US, wh
by lispm 10y ago
If you don't buy anything, just go past the queue at the checkout line.
> There was immediate pandemonium,
Try to sit in the front seat of a cab in the US, which would be typical in Germany - in the US the cab driver will yell at you, or show his weapon.
Traffic control by the police. Try to reach into your pocket. Immediate pandemonium. In the US, not Germany.
Each country/region has its rules. You have learned yours. In a different country there are other rules.
Surprise: Germany has other rules than the US.
Drinking alcohol in public places? In the US? Not really. In Bavaria you would drink beer at work.
Driving speed limits? Strict in the US. Welcome to the German autobahn. To make it possible that you can drive without speed limit in parts of the autobahn, you have to follow other rules - like using a car that actually is safe at higher speeds.
> I'm curious where the German propensity for strict organization,
That this is specially German is a myth. It's also a widespread myth that this is everywhere in German society. Take for example childhood: much less strict organized than in many other countries. Children walk alone to school, take the bus, the train. They are much less drilled than in some other countries.
> rule following, etc, comes from, and how far back it goes. The posted story seems to suggest it comes directly from WWII,
Order comes from the Kaiserreich. Local order came before the Reich.
Every country has its order system, you have to detect it. In the UK you see the people neatly line up at the bus stop. There is a lot of order in public transport. Even more so in Japan. In the US the access to public underground transport is through gates. Something you would not find in Germany - access is open. As a German I find it very depressing to go through steel gates into the public transport system in the US.
>since the East Germans don't seem to have the same attitude.
They have. But it shows in slightly different things.
- ido 10y agoIt's true that Germany is not the only "orderly" society, in your example the US and the UK are also such (to varying degrees, but they are all well on the "organized" side of the spectrum) - as are almost any in the northern parts of Europe & some former British colonies such as Australia or Canada. But I invite you to spend any amount of time in any Indian-subcontinent country and emerge with the conclusion that it's just as orderly as Germany only in a different manner (and for less extreme examples try Turkey, (southern) Italy or Israel).
- lispm 10y agoHave you ever seen an Indian company from the inside? The chance that the hierarchy in the company reflects the caste system is very high, even in IT companies. The caste system still imposes a very strict order into the society. Organization then is top down. Visit the Krishna temple in Bengaluru sometime. Nice long queues. People wait hours without any problem. There is a another, more expensive, but faster queue. Nobody complains. Huge crowds there. Nicely organized they move through the temple. India also has a powerful bureaucracy, it's just not that efficient and people don't seem to expect efficiency. You either follow the rules or pay around it. In Germany you have bureaucracy, but one would expect at least some efficiency - though the recent large scale projects like the Berlin airport or the Stuttgart train station show the opposite. At least in Hamburg the Elbphilharmonie concert hall has been finished recently - after years of delay - with rising costs of ten times the original estimate. So much for order and efficiency in Germany. One thing you should know about Germans: they complain. A lot. About everything. Sometimes it even helps.
- ido 10y agoAre you serious? Yes, exceptions exist. But they are rare. I spent a couple months in northern India (Delhi and some nearby regions) about a decade ago, chaos was everywhere, all the time. Just need to step outside to experience it.
- lispm 10y agoCheck out the Berlin Brandenburg Airport project. Total chaos. 15 years planning. More than ten years of construction. Maybe open 2018. Maybe. 7 years late. 7 billion Euro and rising. Not the German orderly execution you would expect. Not in time, budget and quality. Lots of corruption and incompetence. It's chaos, it just looks different.
- tormeh 10y agoIt's the exception, though, rather than the rule. Prestigious architect/politician-driven projects always have problems and are, by default, plagued by incompetence. The only way to avoid cost overruns and delays is to not build them. There are problems with these kinds of projects even in Norway, which I suspect is the least corrupt country in existence. The BER is ridiculous, though. The specification, organization, execution and communication are all amazingly bad.
- johnchristopher 10y ago> Try to sit in the front seat of a cab in the US, which would be typical in Germany - in the US the cab driver will yell at you, or show his weapon. That's funny because the first time I took a cab in Europe (being from Europe) I thought I was supposed to sit in the backseat because I had seen it so many times on TV before. I am still somehow annoyed by this because I prefer to sit alone in my thoughts and enjoy the ride than having small talks with the driver.
- lispm 10y agoThe function of a driver may be different. In the US he would transport you and the chance that he speaks English or knows the town well is not so high in some cities. ;-) In Europe the cab is also a communication hub. You expect that he/she knows the town and lots of stories...
- pvg 10y agoEurope is really big. As is the US. You're trafficking in exactly the same stereotypes and myths you're complaining about. And no, no cab driver in the US would pull a gun on you for trying to sit in the front seat.
- lispm 10y ago> You're trafficking in exactly the same stereotypes and myths you're complaining about. I'm not complaining. I'm just showing you that stereotypes and myths exist everywhere. > no cab driver in the US would pull a gun on you I tried that in Boston (not New York, as I thought to remember). The driver was EXTREMELY nervous then and didn't let me sit in the front. The cab was shitty and there was a thick transparent shield between the backseat and the front. Something you would never see in Germany.
- pvg 10y agoI'm not complaining. I'm just showing you that stereotypes and myths exist everywhere. Ok, I'm complaining, cause they're bad :) The driver was EXTREMELY nervous Sure, but he didn't pull a gun on you. I've had more guns pointed at me in Europe than in my (undoubtedly sheltered) subsequent life in the US.
- coldtea 10y ago>Surprise: Germany has other rules than the US. Yeah, but the things you mentioned (hysteria about public alcohol, trigger happy police, etc.) are things people find abhorrent/silly about the US too.