4 ms·

In other news... Bic pen, makers of ubiquitous writing implements, claims copyright over all writings made with said implements. Where does it end?

ris 10y ago
If we're asking "should a user be able to continue using files created with a program beyond the point that they are paying from that program?" we're not that far from the practical effects of such a decision already. I'd wager that a good 90% of the world's graphical/artistic material is locked up in Adobe-proprietary formats for which the only practical editing software has moved to a cloud licensing model. Dispute with Adobe? Say goodbye to all your company's assets...
- ikeboy 10y ago
  Well they can still be edited in desktop versions, which have licenses that have been fully paid for and can't be revoked.
  - abrowne 10y ago
    For Adobe, 'cloud' = 'subscription'. The apps are desktop versions, but they can't be "fully paid for".
    - ikeboy 10y ago
      If you bought a desktop program before they moved to the subscription model, it was fully paid for. You can still buy physical copies online, see e.g. https://www.amazon.com/Adobe-CS6-Design-Premium-Windows/dp/B01C7JT5Z2/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1486244282&sr=8-2&keywords=adobe+cs6 https://www.amazon.com/Adobe-CS6-Design-Premium-Windows/dp/B...
      - macmac 10y ago
        Which is a workable solution until the subscription based products start outputting formats that are not backwards compatible.
      - abrowne 10y ago
        Sure, old versions. Do they still open files from the latest version 100℅? (Honest question.) For Mac at least, every yearly upgrade could mean they don't work anymore. Windows is a bit safer.
- aidos 10y ago
  Though, adobe themselves provide the documentation to unlock the format https://www.adobe.com/devnet-apps/photoshop/fileformatashtml/ https://www.adobe.com/devnet-apps/photoshop/fileformatashtml...
  - thenewwazoo 10y ago
    To which I humbly submit one of my favorite pieces of writing about the PSD file format. From https://bitbucket.org/WAHa_06x36/old-xee/src/fe1cec107972603523e67e7be29a83e493f5cac2/XeePhotoshopLoader.m?at=default&fileviewer=file-view-default#XeePhotoshopLoader.m-108 https://bitbucket.org/WAHa_06x36/old-xee/src/fe1cec107972603... // At this point, I'd like to take a moment to speak to you about the Adobe PSD format. // PSD is not a good format. PSD is not even a bad format. Calling it such would be an // insult to other bad formats, such as PCX or JPEG. No, PSD is an abysmal format. Having // worked on this code for several weeks now, my hate for PSD has grown to a raging fire // that burns with the fierce passion of a million suns. // If there are two different ways of doing something, PSD will do both, in different // places. It will then make up three more ways no sane human would think of, and do those // too. PSD makes inconsistency an art form. Why, for instance, did it suddenly decide // that *these* particular chunks should be aligned to four bytes, and that this alignement // should *not* be included in the size? Other chunks in other places are either unaligned, // or aligned with the alignment included in the size. Here, though, it is not included. // Either one of these three behaviours would be fine. A sane format would pick one. PSD, // of course, uses all three, and more. // Trying to get data out of a PSD file is like trying to find something in the attic of // your eccentric old uncle who died in a freak freshwater shark attack on his 58th // birthday. That last detail may not be important for the purposes of the simile, but // at this point I am spending a lot of time imagining amusing fates for the people // responsible for this Rube Goldberg of a file format. // Earlier, I tried to get a hold of the latest specs for the PSD file format. To do this, // I had to apply to them for permission to apply to them to have them consider sending // me this sacred tome. This would have involved faxing them a copy of some document or // other, probably signed in blood. I can only imagine that they make this process so // difficult because they are intensely ashamed of having created this abomination. I // was naturally not gullible enough to go through with this procedure, but if I had done // so, I would have printed out every single page of the spec, and set them all on fire. // Were it within my power, I would gather every single copy of those specs, and launch // them on a spaceship directly into the sun. // // PSD is not my favourite file format.
- psyc 10y ago
  Adobe can claim one doesn't have a license to use PhotoShop. There is no reason for them to additionally claim they own the copyright to one's .PSDs.
  - macmac 10y ago
    Except this case neatly illustrates a case where exactly that would be expedient.
achr2 10y ago
That is a really poor comparison. Imagine you built a piece of software that had tens of thousands of man hours of industry specifications, templates, calculations, symbol libraries, and regulatory compliance built in. Now imagine an american company was 'offshoring' their piracy to Chinese subcontractors who used that software illegally to produce intelligent CAD files (i.e. not just a CAD drawing, but bills of materials, specs, and calculation tables) that literally could not be produced to the same standards without that software. And then sold those files in the US market for major profit, without ever having payed for any licenses of your software or tools. I am all for open standards, and I don't really care about individual piracy. But a company should be held responsible for the ethical production of their products no matter if they subcontract the work or not.
ComodoHacker 10y ago
>Where does it end? It rather only starts here. Just wait until AI tech evolve enough for AI-produced creative work to be minimally valuable.

ris 10y ago

If we're asking "should a user be able to continue using files created with a program beyond the point that they are paying from that program?" we're not that far from the practical effects of such a decision already. I'd wager that a good 90% of the world's graphical/artistic material is locked up in Adobe-proprietary formats for which the only practical editing software has moved to a cloud licensing model. Dispute with Adobe? Say goodbye to all your company's assets...

ikeboy 10y ago
Well they can still be edited in desktop versions, which have licenses that have been fully paid for and can't be revoked.
- abrowne 10y ago
  For Adobe, 'cloud' = 'subscription'. The apps are desktop versions, but they can't be "fully paid for".
  - ikeboy 10y ago
    If you bought a desktop program before they moved to the subscription model, it was fully paid for. You can still buy physical copies online, see e.g. https://www.amazon.com/Adobe-CS6-Design-Premium-Windows/dp/B01C7JT5Z2/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1486244282&sr=8-2&keywords=adobe+cs6 https://www.amazon.com/Adobe-CS6-Design-Premium-Windows/dp/B...
    - macmac 10y ago
      Which is a workable solution until the subscription based products start outputting formats that are not backwards compatible.
    - abrowne 10y ago
      Sure, old versions. Do they still open files from the latest version 100℅? (Honest question.) For Mac at least, every yearly upgrade could mean they don't work anymore. Windows is a bit safer.
aidos 10y ago
Though, adobe themselves provide the documentation to unlock the format https://www.adobe.com/devnet-apps/photoshop/fileformatashtml/ https://www.adobe.com/devnet-apps/photoshop/fileformatashtml...
- thenewwazoo 10y ago
  To which I humbly submit one of my favorite pieces of writing about the PSD file format. From https://bitbucket.org/WAHa_06x36/old-xee/src/fe1cec107972603523e67e7be29a83e493f5cac2/XeePhotoshopLoader.m?at=default&fileviewer=file-view-default#XeePhotoshopLoader.m-108 https://bitbucket.org/WAHa_06x36/old-xee/src/fe1cec107972603... // At this point, I'd like to take a moment to speak to you about the Adobe PSD format. // PSD is not a good format. PSD is not even a bad format. Calling it such would be an // insult to other bad formats, such as PCX or JPEG. No, PSD is an abysmal format. Having // worked on this code for several weeks now, my hate for PSD has grown to a raging fire // that burns with the fierce passion of a million suns. // If there are two different ways of doing something, PSD will do both, in different // places. It will then make up three more ways no sane human would think of, and do those // too. PSD makes inconsistency an art form. Why, for instance, did it suddenly decide // that *these* particular chunks should be aligned to four bytes, and that this alignement // should *not* be included in the size? Other chunks in other places are either unaligned, // or aligned with the alignment included in the size. Here, though, it is not included. // Either one of these three behaviours would be fine. A sane format would pick one. PSD, // of course, uses all three, and more. // Trying to get data out of a PSD file is like trying to find something in the attic of // your eccentric old uncle who died in a freak freshwater shark attack on his 58th // birthday. That last detail may not be important for the purposes of the simile, but // at this point I am spending a lot of time imagining amusing fates for the people // responsible for this Rube Goldberg of a file format. // Earlier, I tried to get a hold of the latest specs for the PSD file format. To do this, // I had to apply to them for permission to apply to them to have them consider sending // me this sacred tome. This would have involved faxing them a copy of some document or // other, probably signed in blood. I can only imagine that they make this process so // difficult because they are intensely ashamed of having created this abomination. I // was naturally not gullible enough to go through with this procedure, but if I had done // so, I would have printed out every single page of the spec, and set them all on fire. // Were it within my power, I would gather every single copy of those specs, and launch // them on a spaceship directly into the sun. // // PSD is not my favourite file format.
psyc 10y ago
Adobe can claim one doesn't have a license to use PhotoShop. There is no reason for them to additionally claim they own the copyright to one's .PSDs.
- macmac 10y ago
  Except this case neatly illustrates a case where exactly that would be expedient.

achr2 10y ago

That is a really poor comparison. Imagine you built a piece of software that had tens of thousands of man hours of industry specifications, templates, calculations, symbol libraries, and regulatory compliance built in. Now imagine an american company was 'offshoring' their piracy to Chinese subcontractors who used that software illegally to produce intelligent CAD files (i.e. not just a CAD drawing, but bills of materials, specs, and calculation tables) that literally could not be produced to the same standards without that software. And then sold those files in the US market for major profit, without ever having payed for any licenses of your software or tools. I am all for open standards, and I don't really care about individual piracy. But a company should be held responsible for the ethical production of their products no matter if they subcontract the work or not.

ComodoHacker 10y ago

>Where does it end? It rather only starts here. Just wait until AI tech evolve enough for AI-produced creative work to be minimally valuable.