6 ms·

That age old "I have nothing to hide" argument. AKA "they're nice people, what could go wrong". This is not the point. The point is: Information in the wrong

• Kiro 10y ago
  Not OP but even if the next Hitler would get all my Facebook data I still don't care personally. Am I naive? I do understand why people have a problem with it though.
  • elastic_church 10y ago
    People have been fired or denied employment from "groups" they "liked" way back in the heydays of Facebook. Very benign things can activate very discretionary things in other people.
    • Kiro 10y ago
      If I get fired because of my Facebook profile I'm sure I wouldn't want to work there anyway.
      • elastic_church 10y ago
        and I'm guessing you consider that a rebuttal?
        • Kiro 10y ago
          What do you mean?
          • dwaltrip 10y ago
            The point is to not only consider how such dynamics would affect you personally. There are 7.4 billion humans on this Earth, and not all of them have the opportunities you do.
            • Kiro 10y ago
              The point of what? The discussion is strictly about my personal situation. I 100% understand that other people may be much more affected and I'm supporting their cause. But that's off topic.
              • deleted 10y ago
                [deleted]
              • dwaltrip 10y ago
                I'm guessing this is why elastic_church thought your response was a weak rebuttal. It's a very narrow view of a complex, important topic that will likely have big affects on our society.
  • AnthonyMouse 10y ago
    > Not OP but even if the next Hitler would get all my Facebook data I still don't care personally. Am I naive? Do you have Jewish ancestry? Of course the next "Hitler" probably won't be after Jews. Next time it would be Muslims or immigrants or Stalinist purges of anyone who disagrees with the administration. You don't know today what opinions would get you put on a list tomorrow. And if you've never said anything that anyone could ever find objectionable, you're probably doing something wrong.
    • pmoriarty 10y ago
      Just a little more on this subject: Good luck proving you're not one of the targeted groups to someone in power who's not interested in your proof.
      • lutusp 10y ago
        The problem isn't a system in which Jews or Muslims or Armenians are targeted for discrimination. The problem is a system with the power and legal authority to target any group whatsoever.
        • AnthonyMouse 10y ago
          What you're missing is what security people call defense in depth. The primary goal is to prevent a system that can target anyone, but it is a historical fact that we have not always been able to achieve that goal. What happens then?
          • lutusp 10y ago
            > What you're missing is what security people call defense in depth. I didn't miss it, I deplore it. True "defense in depth" puts all civil rights aside. "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -- Benjamin Franklin. > What happens then? Citizens fight back. The outcome that tyrants dearly wish for is a population that simply doesn't care, or that can be frightened into submission. It's my hope that we're not that population. Even token resistance is better than none at all.
  • ferbivore 10y ago
    That's because you don't have anything to hide right now. But you never really know what class will be targeted next. Maybe you don't care because you're not Jewish, or not a Muslim, or not a right-winger, or not a feminist... but whatever class you are part of could be the next one everyone hates.
    • Kiro 10y ago
      I find it so unlikely that my Facebook data will ever constitute such a problem and even if it happens, well so be it. I have much more realistic and current problems to worry about. I just can't be bothered, even if I hear what you say.
  • ardit33 10y ago
    You probably never lived under communism. Often people got in trouble not because they were dissenting, but merely being associated with somebody that was a political dissenter. The usual term of accusation was called: "Agitation and propaganda" for the imperialist/capitalist regimes. So, why you might have been squeak clean, if your friend, or your cousin was not, then you were considered a problem just by association. When somebody got in jail, their whole family got 'interned' (means, they uproot the family and send them in some remote village). Doctors had to work farm fields, etc. If you were just a cousin, or close friend then you were marked as a problem with not a clean history or biography. If you wanted the nice job, or good education, you would be rejected for it. It seems like a far fetched distant dystopian reality, but during 1950-1990 was reality in half of Europe. Also, a reality in the US the 50s with McCarthyism: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCarthyism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCarthyism
    • Kiro 10y ago
      If I start living in a dictatorship all of a sudden I feel my Facebook data will the least of my problems. It's such a minor issue in my mind that it's like worrying about whether the earth will be hit by a meteor.
      • SerLava 10y ago
        He's saying that if you live in a dictatorship, your Facebook data may literally lead to your death.
        • Kiro 10y ago
          Yes, and the day I end up in a dictatorship I may just as well kill myself anyway. What I'm saying is that the small risk of whatever bad things happening due to Facebook is still not worth my energy. I can fight the fight for other people though.
          • ardaozkal 10y ago
            As someone who lives in Turkey (which you might consider as dictatorship), I might get arrested for this post, just for calling turkey a dictatorship. Fun, eh? The reason I do not kill myself is hope, that I'll be able to get off here one day. That and antidepressants.
  • walterstucco 10y ago
    Yes, you are.
    • Kiro 10y ago
      Even when I paint the worst possible scenario in my mind (I get killed because of my Facebook data) it's still not something I can be bothered about. I could just as well be hit by a car tomorrow but I don't worry about that.
      • kafkaesq 10y ago
        I could just as well be hit by a car tomorrow but I don't worry about that. I don't "worry" about getting hit by a car every day, either. But still I always look both ways before crossing a street. Even one-way streets.
        • Kiro 10y ago
          Of course. The problem is that look both ways in this case basically means stop using Facebook. It's not something I'm willing to do, regardless of risks. It's an important part of my life.
          • kafkaesq 10y ago
            In your case, I wouldn't worry about the risks of FB as much as about the fact that you seem to keep going back and forth in your thoughts. You just asked us, a few levels up, to consider the "What-if?" scenario of some future Hitler coming to power, with all your data available on FB. And so people started explaining to you that, yes, in that case, you'd definitely be very naive not to consider the (obvious) risks of having all your data up on FB. To which your answer to that was, basically, "But that's not very likely to happen."
            • Kiro 10y ago
              You're right. I forgot what the discussion was originally about.
  • kafkaesq 10y ago
    Am I naive? Yes. Very.
  • HugoDaniel 10y ago
    Then you surely have no problem in giving me all your data now. Bank accounts access included, pics of your mom and all conversations you ever had online say for the last 5 years. I'll take care of it, also you can trust me, i'm a cool guy and no intentions of becoming a leader or govern any country ;)
    • Kiro 10y ago
      We're talking about Facebook, not privacy in general. I don't want random people to get my Facebook data, but I won't take any extreme measures to prevent that small risk. Also, I don't understand comments like yours. It seems like a fallacy. Just because you "have nothing to hide" doesn't mean you want everyone to get your whole file just for the sake of it.
      • HugoDaniel 10y ago
        I can guarantee to you that the data will only be used by me (that's more than facebook does). Also, I don't understand comments like yours. It seems like a fallacy. Just because you "have nothing to hide" doesn't mean anyone should get your whole life just for the sake of it.
        • Kiro 10y ago
          I still don't see why I should give it to you.
          • HugoDaniel 10y ago
            Precisely
            • Kiro 10y ago
              The difference is that I get something out of using Facebook, while giving it to you gives me nothing.
  • kahnpro 10y ago
    Ok so when will you be zipping up all your personal data and uploading it for me to examine? And please also post your passwords to Facebook and bank accounts. On a more serious note, are you potentially related to anybody Muslim or Jewish? Have you ever posted political comments or links? Are any of your acquaintances hardline left or right wingers? All sorts of seemingly harmless things today will get you on a list tomorrow. It's impossible to say that you don't have anything to hide, because you don't even know yet today what you may need to hide tomorrow.
    • Kiro 10y ago
      > Ok so when will you be zipping up all your personal data and uploading it for me to examine? Why would I give it to you? I don't understand that argument. If I say "I don't really care if a bird poops on me", does it mean I want birds to poop on me? Just as I won't stop going outside due to the risk of being pooped on, I won't stop using Facebook just because there's a risk of someone obtaining my data.
  • neokrish 10y ago
    Let's break this down. You're saying that social interaction and the experiences offered by the Facebook platform are an important part of your life. I could maybe prod a bit more on this point, to really highlight that the modes of interaction and experiences offered by Facebook has comparable alternatives, but let's say that's subjective and you like what you like. But in terms of the data collected by FB, especially the extent of it, your view is that it seems okay, considering the benefit you receive from FB and you're not bothered. This broadly places you in a category of people who have not experienced a negative experience / erosion of your position in a transaction due to information asymmetry. Either that, or you are in a significant position that this doesn't bother you much. An example from the past - SS used to target dissenters in Germany by throwing bricks at their windows during the night, sending lewd anonymous letters to their partners and causing strains in family relationships etc. Key to this was knowing your affiliations and information on when you were at/out of home, if you lived with a partner or not, what your address was etc. they collected this through extensive surveillance on the ground, storing this information on paper documents and sifting through them when needed. In our case, we have an entity FB that can capture extensive amount of our information, through voluntary and non-voluntary means, store them easily with marginal costs and have the ability to sift through them in seconds. Now, it begs the question who gets access to these capabilities if they are being offered up for sale - a benevolent company will use it to market its services, an aggressive company will try to outmaneuver you at negotiations to maximize their profit and limit your savings, a benevolent government will use it to improve services to you, an authoritarian one will use it to crush you. If you think about the actual operation of collecting this data, it's nothing more than the commoditization of detective services. What would take a human hours of work to keep track of your whereabouts, not how long you eat your food, what you possibly spend at different places, who you interact with and how much etc now is done through our devices for no cost. Some of us believe this is not correct, that such information is being gathered on us, because some experience in our past has negatively impacted us, due to information access and asymmetry. We oppose this and seek out ways to curb this / put guard rails. Others like you, do not see the need for jede guard rails, which to me is a little naive indeed.