8 ms·

- "Hi, we decided to change the terms of your contract and you have to sign this document right now... or else." - "Sorry, I need to talk with he Union first t

by 6t6t6t6 10y ago

- "Hi, we decided to change the terms of your contract and you have to sign this document right now... or else." - "Sorry, I need to talk with he Union first to see what my options." - "Hi, we decided that you need to come to work all the weekends in March and we still have to decide if we will pay for the overtime and how much". - "Mmm... Well, let me ask the Union, but I think that this is not going to happen... I actually had lots of plans for the weekends in March." - "Hi, you are fired. Not because you are a bad professional but because you ask too many questions and because you don't show yourself submissive in front of me". - "Mmm... I am afraid that you will need to have a long conversation with the lawyers of the Union first". That's what Unions are for in many countries.

dozzie 10y ago
Apart from US, in which countries: 1. employer is allowed to unilaterally change contract with employee? 2. employer is allowed not to pay for overtime? 3. employer can fire somebody at a whim? In my country all three are forbidden by law, and I haven't talked about unions yet.
- 6t6t6t6 10y ago
  The fact that the law says that something is forbidden, it does not mean that all the companies comply, having something on your side helps you a lot when you fight the company to make them follow the law. Also, my examples are quite clear, but there are always grays.
ThrowawayR2 10y ago
All of those response are incorrect. The correct answer is "I can call my network and have five offers inside of a month that pay me as much or more than I'm making here." If you need a union to push back for you, well, sorry but most likely you're not keeping up with the average for your profession.
- giaour 10y ago
  Imagine that you're on an H1-B visa. If you utter the phrase you've suggested, you could be fired on the spot and have until the end on the day to leave the country. If, instead, you're engaged in a collective labor action, your employer cannot retaliate by firing you.
  - ThrowawayR2 10y ago
    How about fixing the H1-B law instead?
    - giaour 10y ago
      Sure. Until that happens, developers should unionize. An adequate fix would take years to implement, and congress is unlikely to pass one within the next 4-8 years, so I don't think your suggestion is likely to be relevant within a reasonable timeframe.
- 6t6t6t6 10y ago
  At this moment developers have an unusual power that comes because of the scarcity of good developers. This does not happen in many other professions and will, for sure, not last forever for the programmers. The day you won't be able to just walk to the next company, you will miss to have the power to negotiate with your employer and not just obey him or run away. Do you remember 2004?

by 6t6t6t6 10y ago

dozzie 10y ago

Apart from US, in which countries: 1. employer is allowed to unilaterally change contract with employee? 2. employer is allowed not to pay for overtime? 3. employer can fire somebody at a whim? In my country all three are forbidden by law, and I haven't talked about unions yet.

6t6t6t6 10y ago
The fact that the law says that something is forbidden, it does not mean that all the companies comply, having something on your side helps you a lot when you fight the company to make them follow the law. Also, my examples are quite clear, but there are always grays.

ThrowawayR2 10y ago

All of those response are incorrect. The correct answer is "I can call my network and have five offers inside of a month that pay me as much or more than I'm making here." If you need a union to push back for you, well, sorry but most likely you're not keeping up with the average for your profession.

giaour 10y ago
Imagine that you're on an H1-B visa. If you utter the phrase you've suggested, you could be fired on the spot and have until the end on the day to leave the country. If, instead, you're engaged in a collective labor action, your employer cannot retaliate by firing you.
- ThrowawayR2 10y ago
  How about fixing the H1-B law instead?
  - giaour 10y ago
    Sure. Until that happens, developers should unionize. An adequate fix would take years to implement, and congress is unlikely to pass one within the next 4-8 years, so I don't think your suggestion is likely to be relevant within a reasonable timeframe.
6t6t6t6 10y ago
At this moment developers have an unusual power that comes because of the scarcity of good developers. This does not happen in many other professions and will, for sure, not last forever for the programmers. The day you won't be able to just walk to the next company, you will miss to have the power to negotiate with your employer and not just obey him or run away. Do you remember 2004?