4 ms·

Fully agree.. but I wonder what would happen if unions started to take a leaf out of the 'no poaching' corporate playbook and simply unionised secretly. Collect

by cam_l 10y ago

Fully agree.. but I wonder what would happen if unions started to take a leaf out of the 'no poaching' corporate playbook and simply unionised secretly. Collective bargaining via synchronised individual bargaining, where everyone demands the same conditions on their employment. (Surely this could be appified ;) Perhaps if there were no official union, the vicious knock down would be much more difficult to focus. And it could be much easier for a coordinated and realtime response direct from the employees, rather than an intermediary. I think the thing that people forget with regard to unions and employers is they are simply about redressing a massive power imbalance in a potentially mutually beneficial relationship.

slavik81 10y ago
Unions are essentially a form of cartel, and they suffer from all the same organizational problems. Workers are faced with a prisoner's dilemma. The best individual choice is always to defect. To keep a unified front you need some sort of centralized force that prevents people from defecting. In traditional unions, it is enforced by law that all employees must join the union if the shop is unionized. A secret voluntary union would lack that unifying force and would collapse as workers pursue their personal self-interest.
- cam_l 10y ago
  True. But corporates seems to survive with majority cooperation and occasional defection. Perhaps there does need to be some mechanism to 'tat' the 'tits' who defect. My take is that the major obstacle workers face in negotiating conditions, pay, and work, is information asymmetry. Having everyone negotiate from an increased negotiating position should help the honest workers as well as the defectors.. and one would hope, the employers.
  - rkofman 10y ago
    If all you're looking for is information symmetry, you don't need unions. You just need to have a representative sample publicly publish their salaries / other comp details.
- M2Ys4U 10y ago
  >In traditional unions, it is enforced by law that all employees must join the union if the shop is unionized. That very much depends on the jurisdiction. Closed-shops are illegal in Europe.
- specialist 10y ago
  This book was revelatory for me. I was aware of game theory stuff, but had no idea how it applied to groups. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Logic_of_Collective_Action https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Logic_of_Collective_Action
MrLeap 10y ago
This could be brilliant.

by cam_l 10y ago

slavik81 10y ago

Unions are essentially a form of cartel, and they suffer from all the same organizational problems. Workers are faced with a prisoner's dilemma. The best individual choice is always to defect. To keep a unified front you need some sort of centralized force that prevents people from defecting. In traditional unions, it is enforced by law that all employees must join the union if the shop is unionized. A secret voluntary union would lack that unifying force and would collapse as workers pursue their personal self-interest.

cam_l 10y ago
True. But corporates seems to survive with majority cooperation and occasional defection. Perhaps there does need to be some mechanism to 'tat' the 'tits' who defect. My take is that the major obstacle workers face in negotiating conditions, pay, and work, is information asymmetry. Having everyone negotiate from an increased negotiating position should help the honest workers as well as the defectors.. and one would hope, the employers.
- rkofman 10y ago
  If all you're looking for is information symmetry, you don't need unions. You just need to have a representative sample publicly publish their salaries / other comp details.
M2Ys4U 10y ago
>In traditional unions, it is enforced by law that all employees must join the union if the shop is unionized. That very much depends on the jurisdiction. Closed-shops are illegal in Europe.
specialist 10y ago
This book was revelatory for me. I was aware of game theory stuff, but had no idea how it applied to groups. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Logic_of_Collective_Action https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Logic_of_Collective_Action

MrLeap 10y ago

This could be brilliant.