I've also noticed that most "mainstream" startup discussions are skewed towards a "classic" web startup world view. That's what everyone imagines when the word

I've also noticed that most "mainstream" startup discussions are skewed towards a "classic" web startup world view. That's what everyone imagines when the word startup comes to mind. So I think what you are saying makes sense, but at the same time you could argue that if your first real customer contact comes 6 years down the road, then your investors ARE your customers, and you just happened to hook one without a pivot.