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Interesting perspective. But what determines market wage? If my company is going to make 500-700k on me per annum, I think a 150k salary inclusive of bonuses +

Interesting perspective. But what determines market wage? If my company is going to make 500-700k on me per annum, I think a 150k salary inclusive of bonuses + health care + very generous PTO + 5% 401k matching is a very good pay. Which is what I am getting right now. In the end, my company will spend about 200k on me per annum not including my visa expenses. So would that mean the market wage for this position is some where close to what I am getting paid? I think yes. However, if the company is making 2-3 million on me but only pays me my current salary, there is a lot of room for market wage increase. In the end, I think market wage is also based on the ROI you bring to the company. In my case, if a local appears and commands a 200k base, why should the company pay him/her? In the local's eyes, s/he is worth 200k + but the company does not generate enough value of of them to pay that salary. So, I do not think I am displacing anyone here. In fact, as I said, I helped mentor two americans and I would gladly teach my skills to the locals if the govt had certain programs where immigrants can teach the locals and get some sort of benefit from it( May be a faster track for a green card? ). I don't know, just a thought :)

TuringNYC 10y ago
Dear @capRidiculous -- regarding your other question, "what determines market wage" -- market wages are whatever wages attract sufficient people to meet demand. That might be $15/hr in the case of flipping burgers, or $275k in the case of machine learning. It has nothing to do with the ROI of the company. It is the salary that will convince someone from giving up a competing job elsewhere and join an unfilled position. There are some things that can reduce market wages -- you can make the job more attractive such that people are willing to fill a spot for less salary. It happens all the time, here are some ways to do so: - Federal government jobs pay much less yet attract people because of long-term job security and tax-free earnings in many cases - Municipal government jobs pay much less yet attract people because of easy hours - Some startups pay much less yet attract people because of exciting products or growth opportunity - Hedge funds can pay much less yet attract people with the promise of a share of investment returns Workers are smart though. If there is a position going unfilled, it is because it is not an attractive position. It either needs to pay market wage, or offer some of the above attributes to help reduce market wages for the position.
- capRidiculous 10y ago
  You make very valid points, but how do you expect someone to pay you 300k if they are not making more money off of you? The market is willing to pay machine learning experts 250k + because they bring in multiple of 250k in value. If not, no one would be paying such an amount just because machine learning is hard. If that is the case, astro physicists should be among the highest earners in the world. Much more than your NFL stars.
  - TuringNYC 10y ago
    By the way, our startup is a machine learning startup. We are pre-profit because we're still in the midst of a parallel medical trial of our diagnostic classifier. We are on venture funding so do not pay market wages. Instead I tend to personally hire new grads and train them. I hire pricey ML experts only as short-term consultants when we need. Our startup economics do not support wages above ~140k/yr which is why I go through all this trouble. But i'm honest -- it is because we cannot afford market wages, not because there is a shortage. Just because our budget cannot hire a market rate experienced hire. I've enjoyed our discussion very much. I'd love to offer you a job for sub-market wages :-)

TuringNYC 10y ago

Dear @capRidiculous -- regarding your other question, "what determines market wage" -- market wages are whatever wages attract sufficient people to meet demand. That might be $15/hr in the case of flipping burgers, or $275k in the case of machine learning. It has nothing to do with the ROI of the company. It is the salary that will convince someone from giving up a competing job elsewhere and join an unfilled position. There are some things that can reduce market wages -- you can make the job more attractive such that people are willing to fill a spot for less salary. It happens all the time, here are some ways to do so: - Federal government jobs pay much less yet attract people because of long-term job security and tax-free earnings in many cases - Municipal government jobs pay much less yet attract people because of easy hours - Some startups pay much less yet attract people because of exciting products or growth opportunity - Hedge funds can pay much less yet attract people with the promise of a share of investment returns Workers are smart though. If there is a position going unfilled, it is because it is not an attractive position. It either needs to pay market wage, or offer some of the above attributes to help reduce market wages for the position.

capRidiculous 10y ago
You make very valid points, but how do you expect someone to pay you 300k if they are not making more money off of you? The market is willing to pay machine learning experts 250k + because they bring in multiple of 250k in value. If not, no one would be paying such an amount just because machine learning is hard. If that is the case, astro physicists should be among the highest earners in the world. Much more than your NFL stars.
- TuringNYC 10y ago
  By the way, our startup is a machine learning startup. We are pre-profit because we're still in the midst of a parallel medical trial of our diagnostic classifier. We are on venture funding so do not pay market wages. Instead I tend to personally hire new grads and train them. I hire pricey ML experts only as short-term consultants when we need. Our startup economics do not support wages above ~140k/yr which is why I go through all this trouble. But i'm honest -- it is because we cannot afford market wages, not because there is a shortage. Just because our budget cannot hire a market rate experienced hire. I've enjoyed our discussion very much. I'd love to offer you a job for sub-market wages :-)