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> If she is female then your religion tells you to murder her. That's in the books. That's sad but true. That's a crazy bit of misinformation right there.

by mkaziz 10y ago

logfromblammo 10y ago
I thought so too, but then I looked it up. Surah al-Mai-dah verse 5 states that "lawful in marriage are chaste women form among the believers and chaste women from among those who were given the Scripture before you..." This, giving Muslim men permission to wed Jewish and Christian women, has been interpreted by Islamic jurists as implying by omission that Muslim women may not wed Jewish or Christian men. It was believed that such husbands would impart their religion to their children, and may pressure their wives to convert away from Islam. Since Islam has no central governing authority, adherents largely rely upon the religious scholarship of their own imam, or upon those known to them to have a thorough understanding of Islamic religious interpretations. Some such scholars declared interfaith marriage by a Muslim woman to be equivalent to apostasy. The consensus opinion, however is that interfaith marriages are never acceptable outside of Muslim-establishment countries, as without the support of a Muslim community, both parents are required to reinforce the faith in their children. The punishment for apostasy in the Islamic world ranges from death to no punishment at all. Under Shafi'i, Maliki, and Hanbali schools, female apostates are executed, whereas Hanafi and Shi'a will imprison her indefinitely, until such time as she reverts to Islamic orthodoxy. As a result, I must agree that it is possible that a woman in an interfaith marriage may be executed for it, with no other reason necessary, under recognized interpretations of Sharia law. This is, of course, independent of those who may murder women in interfaith marriages under color of religion, outside of the purview of recognized Islamic judges of Sharia law. I believe such "honor killing" murders are in fact based upon the underlying tribal culture and not upon its majority religion. As such, if you're not from Pakistan, Sudan, or Saudi Arabia, no one will recommend that a Muslim woman be murdered for marrying a non-Muslim. However, it is likely that everyone she knows will constantly be telling her to get a divorce or will be shunning her until she does.
- mkaziz 10y ago
  > As a result, I must agree that it is possible that a woman in an interfaith marriage may be executed for it, with no other reason necessary, under recognized interpretations of Sharia law. The thing with Sharia is that it is loose enough to be interpreted in many different ways. As the saying goes in the Muslim community, if you find something you want to do badly enough, you can find a "scholar" willing to give you a fatwa for it. This can range from honour killings to an exemption from the ban on drinking alcohol. However, as you mentioned yourself, this particular set of opinions is rarely drawn together in practice to come to this conclusion, and when it is, it is often to justify other forces at play - tribal cultures and so-call "honour killings". Ps. Not sure why you got downvotes for a well-researched and well-presented statement. I gave you an upvote for it.
- akiselev 10y ago
  > I thought so too, but then I looked it up. Surah al-Mai-dah verse 5 states that "lawful in marriage are chaste women form among the believers and chaste women from among those who were given the Scripture before you..." This, giving Muslim men permission to wed Jewish and Christian women, has been interpreted by Islamic jurists as implying by omission that Muslim women may not wed Jewish or Christian men. It was believed that such husbands would impart their religion to their children, and may pressure their wives to convert away from Islam. You "looked it up" but you didn't understand a single word. For those interested in the nuances of old religious texts written in dialects that have long since been changed beyond all recognition: a good starting point is http://corpus.quran.com/translation.jsp?chapter=5&verse=5 http://corpus.quran.com/translation.jsp?chapter=5&verse=5 - Note: there is no more consensus in the Muslim population on what this scripture means than there is consensus between the Catholic and Orthodox Church on the liturgy. The only difference is that the latter two have been under centuries of global public pressure to reconciliate. > Since Islam has no central governing authority, adherents largely rely upon the religious scholarship of their own imam, or upon those known to them to have a thorough understanding of Islamic religious interpretations. Some such scholars declared interfaith marriage by a Muslim woman to be equivalent to apostasy. The consensus opinion, however is that interfaith marriages are never acceptable outside of Muslim-establishment countries, as without the support of a Muslim community, both parents are required to reinforce the faith in their children. The punishment for apostasy in the Islamic world ranges from death to no punishment at all. Under Shafi'i, Maliki, and Hanbali schools, female apostates are executed, whereas Hanafi and Shi'a will imprison her indefinitely, until such time as she reverts to Islamic orthodoxy. As a result, I must agree that it is possible that a woman in an interfaith marriage may be executed for it, with no other reason necessary, under recognized interpretations of Sharia law. This is, of course, independent of those who may murder women in interfaith marriages under color of religion, outside of the purview of recognized Islamic judges of Sharia law. I believe such "honor killing" murders are in fact based upon the underlying tribal culture and not upon its majority religion. As such, if you're not from Pakistan, Sudan, or Saudi Arabia, no one will recommend that a Muslim woman be murdered for marrying a non-Muslim. However, it is likely that everyone she knows will constantly be telling her to get a divorce or will be shunning her until she does. Replace [Islam] with [American Evangelical Christianity], [Imam] with [Pastor], [Islamic] with [Christian], [interfaith] with [inter-racial], [Muslim] with [white], [Shafi'i, Maliki, and Hanbali] with [KKK], [Hanafi and Shi'a] with [their husbands], [Sharia] with [Jim Crow], and [Pakistan, Sudan, or Saudi Arabia] with [Alabama, Mississippi, or Texas] and you have a pretty accurate (although grammatically intolerable) history of 20th century America. I too love uninformed word salad.

> If she is female then your religion tells you to murder her. That's in the books. That's sad but true. That's a crazy bit of misinformation right there.

by mkaziz 10y ago

> If she is female then your religion tells you to murder her. That's in the books. That's sad but true. That's a crazy bit of misinformation right there.

logfromblammo 10y ago

I thought so too, but then I looked it up. Surah al-Mai-dah verse 5 states that "lawful in marriage are chaste women form among the believers and chaste women from among those who were given the Scripture before you..." This, giving Muslim men permission to wed Jewish and Christian women, has been interpreted by Islamic jurists as implying by omission that Muslim women may not wed Jewish or Christian men. It was believed that such husbands would impart their religion to their children, and may pressure their wives to convert away from Islam. Since Islam has no central governing authority, adherents largely rely upon the religious scholarship of their own imam, or upon those known to them to have a thorough understanding of Islamic religious interpretations. Some such scholars declared interfaith marriage by a Muslim woman to be equivalent to apostasy. The consensus opinion, however is that interfaith marriages are never acceptable outside of Muslim-establishment countries, as without the support of a Muslim community, both parents are required to reinforce the faith in their children. The punishment for apostasy in the Islamic world ranges from death to no punishment at all. Under Shafi'i, Maliki, and Hanbali schools, female apostates are executed, whereas Hanafi and Shi'a will imprison her indefinitely, until such time as she reverts to Islamic orthodoxy. As a result, I must agree that it is possible that a woman in an interfaith marriage may be executed for it, with no other reason necessary, under recognized interpretations of Sharia law. This is, of course, independent of those who may murder women in interfaith marriages under color of religion, outside of the purview of recognized Islamic judges of Sharia law. I believe such "honor killing" murders are in fact based upon the underlying tribal culture and not upon its majority religion. As such, if you're not from Pakistan, Sudan, or Saudi Arabia, no one will recommend that a Muslim woman be murdered for marrying a non-Muslim. However, it is likely that everyone she knows will constantly be telling her to get a divorce or will be shunning her until she does.

mkaziz 10y ago
> As a result, I must agree that it is possible that a woman in an interfaith marriage may be executed for it, with no other reason necessary, under recognized interpretations of Sharia law. The thing with Sharia is that it is loose enough to be interpreted in many different ways. As the saying goes in the Muslim community, if you find something you want to do badly enough, you can find a "scholar" willing to give you a fatwa for it. This can range from honour killings to an exemption from the ban on drinking alcohol. However, as you mentioned yourself, this particular set of opinions is rarely drawn together in practice to come to this conclusion, and when it is, it is often to justify other forces at play - tribal cultures and so-call "honour killings". Ps. Not sure why you got downvotes for a well-researched and well-presented statement. I gave you an upvote for it.
akiselev 10y ago
> I thought so too, but then I looked it up. Surah al-Mai-dah verse 5 states that "lawful in marriage are chaste women form among the believers and chaste women from among those who were given the Scripture before you..." This, giving Muslim men permission to wed Jewish and Christian women, has been interpreted by Islamic jurists as implying by omission that Muslim women may not wed Jewish or Christian men. It was believed that such husbands would impart their religion to their children, and may pressure their wives to convert away from Islam. You "looked it up" but you didn't understand a single word. For those interested in the nuances of old religious texts written in dialects that have long since been changed beyond all recognition: a good starting point is http://corpus.quran.com/translation.jsp?chapter=5&verse=5 http://corpus.quran.com/translation.jsp?chapter=5&verse=5 - Note: there is no more consensus in the Muslim population on what this scripture means than there is consensus between the Catholic and Orthodox Church on the liturgy. The only difference is that the latter two have been under centuries of global public pressure to reconciliate. > Since Islam has no central governing authority, adherents largely rely upon the religious scholarship of their own imam, or upon those known to them to have a thorough understanding of Islamic religious interpretations. Some such scholars declared interfaith marriage by a Muslim woman to be equivalent to apostasy. The consensus opinion, however is that interfaith marriages are never acceptable outside of Muslim-establishment countries, as without the support of a Muslim community, both parents are required to reinforce the faith in their children. The punishment for apostasy in the Islamic world ranges from death to no punishment at all. Under Shafi'i, Maliki, and Hanbali schools, female apostates are executed, whereas Hanafi and Shi'a will imprison her indefinitely, until such time as she reverts to Islamic orthodoxy. As a result, I must agree that it is possible that a woman in an interfaith marriage may be executed for it, with no other reason necessary, under recognized interpretations of Sharia law. This is, of course, independent of those who may murder women in interfaith marriages under color of religion, outside of the purview of recognized Islamic judges of Sharia law. I believe such "honor killing" murders are in fact based upon the underlying tribal culture and not upon its majority religion. As such, if you're not from Pakistan, Sudan, or Saudi Arabia, no one will recommend that a Muslim woman be murdered for marrying a non-Muslim. However, it is likely that everyone she knows will constantly be telling her to get a divorce or will be shunning her until she does. Replace [Islam] with [American Evangelical Christianity], [Imam] with [Pastor], [Islamic] with [Christian], [interfaith] with [inter-racial], [Muslim] with [white], [Shafi'i, Maliki, and Hanbali] with [KKK], [Hanafi and Shi'a] with [their husbands], [Sharia] with [Jim Crow], and [Pakistan, Sudan, or Saudi Arabia] with [Alabama, Mississippi, or Texas] and you have a pretty accurate (although grammatically intolerable) history of 20th century America. I too love uninformed word salad.