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By the way, $120k is nice for NC, but the banks in NC pay $180k for the same talent. There is no shortage in NC for Big Data and Analytics talent, the company

By the way, $120k is nice for NC, but the banks in NC pay $180k for the same talent. There is no shortage in NC for Big Data and Analytics talent, the company cannot find the talent because they are simply not paying as much as Wells Fargo next door. If they pay $180k, they will find all the talent they need. They might even convince talent from NY/NJ to move down for that sum. AIG Investments recently convinced a dozen+ group of analytics workers to move down to NC for that salary range. The people would not have moved down for $120k. Also, $120k is pretty nice, until you have some kids and loads of medical co-pays, dental fees, school fees, and then it is simply too little. Dont believe me? Several years ago, my medical co-pays post insurance were over $20,000 for the year, which is more like $32,000 pre-tax. What happens is people move into non technical roles which pay commensurate to skillsets. There is no shortage of skillsets, there is simply a shortage of experienced people willing to take sub-market wages for strong resumes.

capRidiculous 10y ago
I know three people (2 immigrants on H1b) of the top of my head that are getting paid 200k + inclusive of year end bonus in NC and they have 10 + years of experience in the industry. My old company tried to find a Big Data and Analytics lead for 6 months before giving up. They simply could not find anyone good. This was back in 2014-15. They were willing to go upto 200k to pay for it. To pay anything more than that would not be worth it for them as the ROI just does not make sense at that point. My role is of a Sr.Associate which requires 2-4 years of experience and I am a 27 year old guy. Would you really pay 200k plus for a person with my level of experience? Hiring a person with more experience for my position and paying 200k plus does not make sense because they would be over qualified for what I do. Also, there are not enough local developers with 2-4 years of exp with my skill set. At my old firm, I personally mentored 2 american fresh grads because they could not find Jr.developers with Big Data skills. I am pretty sure that I can make more than 180k in NC by the time I turn 32-33 but I will need to upgrade my skills at that point. I am already looking at Blockchain instead of waiting for my company to train me. I believe that it will be in demand 2-3 years down the line. I support the increase in wages but you also need to consider what ROI you are bringing to the company if you are commanding a 200k + salary in a place like NC. Are you brining a 3-4x annual return? Then yes, command that salary by all means. If not, you do not deserve such a hefty pay check.
- TuringNYC 10y ago
  I'm running a startup right now, and you are absolutely correct -- I would not pay $200k for an analytics person. Our company's unit economics cannot support that type of wage. However, i'll be honest and say we cannot afford the market wage, so we make development decisions accordingly. It would be dishonest for me to claim a shortage when I'm clearly not paying market wages. Not wanting to pay market wages is not evidence of a shortage. You get what you pay for. I drive a Hyundai because I am not willing to pay $80,000 for a car. I'll be honest and say I'm unwilling to purchase a Corvette. There is no shortage of Corvettes, i'm just not willing to pay for one. If I try to pay $27,000 for a Corvette, that is not a shortage, that is just nonsensical.
  - capRidiculous 10y ago
    Interesting perspective. But what determines market wage? If my company is going to make 500-700k on me per annum, I think a 150k salary inclusive of bonuses + health care + very generous PTO + 5% 401k matching is a very good pay. Which is what I am getting right now. In the end, my company will spend about 200k on me per annum not including my visa expenses. So would that mean the market wage for this position is some where close to what I am getting paid? I think yes. However, if the company is making 2-3 million on me but only pays me my current salary, there is a lot of room for market wage increase. In the end, I think market wage is also based on the ROI you bring to the company. In my case, if a local appears and commands a 200k base, why should the company pay him/her? In the local's eyes, s/he is worth 200k + but the company does not generate enough value of of them to pay that salary. So, I do not think I am displacing anyone here. In fact, as I said, I helped mentor two americans and I would gladly teach my skills to the locals if the govt had certain programs where immigrants can teach the locals and get some sort of benefit from it( May be a faster track for a green card? ). I don't know, just a thought :)
    - TuringNYC 10y ago
      Dear @capRidiculous -- regarding your other question, "what determines market wage" -- market wages are whatever wages attract sufficient people to meet demand. That might be $15/hr in the case of flipping burgers, or $275k in the case of machine learning. It has nothing to do with the ROI of the company. It is the salary that will convince someone from giving up a competing job elsewhere and join an unfilled position. There are some things that can reduce market wages -- you can make the job more attractive such that people are willing to fill a spot for less salary. It happens all the time, here are some ways to do so: - Federal government jobs pay much less yet attract people because of long-term job security and tax-free earnings in many cases - Municipal government jobs pay much less yet attract people because of easy hours - Some startups pay much less yet attract people because of exciting products or growth opportunity - Hedge funds can pay much less yet attract people with the promise of a share of investment returns Workers are smart though. If there is a position going unfilled, it is because it is not an attractive position. It either needs to pay market wage, or offer some of the above attributes to help reduce market wages for the position.

capRidiculous 10y ago

I know three people (2 immigrants on H1b) of the top of my head that are getting paid 200k + inclusive of year end bonus in NC and they have 10 + years of experience in the industry. My old company tried to find a Big Data and Analytics lead for 6 months before giving up. They simply could not find anyone good. This was back in 2014-15. They were willing to go upto 200k to pay for it. To pay anything more than that would not be worth it for them as the ROI just does not make sense at that point. My role is of a Sr.Associate which requires 2-4 years of experience and I am a 27 year old guy. Would you really pay 200k plus for a person with my level of experience? Hiring a person with more experience for my position and paying 200k plus does not make sense because they would be over qualified for what I do. Also, there are not enough local developers with 2-4 years of exp with my skill set. At my old firm, I personally mentored 2 american fresh grads because they could not find Jr.developers with Big Data skills. I am pretty sure that I can make more than 180k in NC by the time I turn 32-33 but I will need to upgrade my skills at that point. I am already looking at Blockchain instead of waiting for my company to train me. I believe that it will be in demand 2-3 years down the line. I support the increase in wages but you also need to consider what ROI you are bringing to the company if you are commanding a 200k + salary in a place like NC. Are you brining a 3-4x annual return? Then yes, command that salary by all means. If not, you do not deserve such a hefty pay check.

TuringNYC 10y ago
I'm running a startup right now, and you are absolutely correct -- I would not pay $200k for an analytics person. Our company's unit economics cannot support that type of wage. However, i'll be honest and say we cannot afford the market wage, so we make development decisions accordingly. It would be dishonest for me to claim a shortage when I'm clearly not paying market wages. Not wanting to pay market wages is not evidence of a shortage. You get what you pay for. I drive a Hyundai because I am not willing to pay $80,000 for a car. I'll be honest and say I'm unwilling to purchase a Corvette. There is no shortage of Corvettes, i'm just not willing to pay for one. If I try to pay $27,000 for a Corvette, that is not a shortage, that is just nonsensical.
- capRidiculous 10y ago
  Interesting perspective. But what determines market wage? If my company is going to make 500-700k on me per annum, I think a 150k salary inclusive of bonuses + health care + very generous PTO + 5% 401k matching is a very good pay. Which is what I am getting right now. In the end, my company will spend about 200k on me per annum not including my visa expenses. So would that mean the market wage for this position is some where close to what I am getting paid? I think yes. However, if the company is making 2-3 million on me but only pays me my current salary, there is a lot of room for market wage increase. In the end, I think market wage is also based on the ROI you bring to the company. In my case, if a local appears and commands a 200k base, why should the company pay him/her? In the local's eyes, s/he is worth 200k + but the company does not generate enough value of of them to pay that salary. So, I do not think I am displacing anyone here. In fact, as I said, I helped mentor two americans and I would gladly teach my skills to the locals if the govt had certain programs where immigrants can teach the locals and get some sort of benefit from it( May be a faster track for a green card? ). I don't know, just a thought :)
  - TuringNYC 10y ago
    Dear @capRidiculous -- regarding your other question, "what determines market wage" -- market wages are whatever wages attract sufficient people to meet demand. That might be $15/hr in the case of flipping burgers, or $275k in the case of machine learning. It has nothing to do with the ROI of the company. It is the salary that will convince someone from giving up a competing job elsewhere and join an unfilled position. There are some things that can reduce market wages -- you can make the job more attractive such that people are willing to fill a spot for less salary. It happens all the time, here are some ways to do so: - Federal government jobs pay much less yet attract people because of long-term job security and tax-free earnings in many cases - Municipal government jobs pay much less yet attract people because of easy hours - Some startups pay much less yet attract people because of exciting products or growth opportunity - Hedge funds can pay much less yet attract people with the promise of a share of investment returns Workers are smart though. If there is a position going unfilled, it is because it is not an attractive position. It either needs to pay market wage, or offer some of the above attributes to help reduce market wages for the position.