11 ms·

Misophonia: Scientists crack why eating sounds can make people angry

100 points by daegloe 10y ago

draw_down 10y ago
My explanation was "we find the other's enjoyment intolerable", but I guess this one is better.
lfender6445 10y ago
For myself I thought it bothered me because of how I was raised (not to chew with mouth open, smacking sounds, eat quietly, etc)
- Lukman 10y ago
  Same here. I think this is evidence of genetic factors - i.e. my dad has a mild case and it manifested in him being very emphatic about training us not to make sounds while eating.
  - checkoutmygenes 10y ago
    There are genetic factors!
- TomTomXC 10y ago
  Exactly. We are forcefully taught to fight these behaviours in ourselves very early on, often before we gain consciousness and memory as children. That will lead parts of our brain to detest and fight those behaviours in others laters on, bot on a subconscious level which makes it hard to change.
ENTP 10y ago
I know someone who smacks their lips loudly when eating. Although noises in general don't irritate me as per the article, this person's eating noise riles me. Like another commentor, i think it's just a manners thing.
sunnyP 10y ago
Eating sounds combined with an open office plan is enough to make my head explode.
brockf 10y ago
How is this an "explanation" or "cracking" the problem? They showed that an emotional response was correlated with neural behavior... what else could it have been? More broadly, it's frustrating that neuroscientists reframe genuinely interesting questions ("Why do I get angry when people eat apples beside me?") into boring questions ("What does my brain look like when I'm angry about someone eating an apple?").
- Paul-ish 10y ago
  But that does seem like the first step to answering the question.
  - chris_wot 10y ago
    I'm trying to understand why seeing what the brain looks like after hearing someone eat an apple is not interesting?
  - brockf 10y ago
    I never said it wasn't the first step, but it's heralded (by the media at least) as much more than that -- an explanation or a conclusion.
- sampo 10y ago
  > How is this an "explanation" or "cracking" the problem? They showed that an emotional response was correlated with neural behavior... what else could it have been? There are Facebook support groups, and a subreddit, for people suffering form this disorder, and it's not uncommon that family members, spouses and friends think they are just being obnoxious, and advise them to "just shrug it off". If it's a measurable neurophysiological condition, this gives some support that those people just cannot shrug it off, whatever they try. It can also help the sufferers to know that they are not being just crazy, but something really is different in the way their brain is wired.
  - brockf 10y ago
    To your first point, I'm not sure how this helps the sufferers. What they have shown is that there is a different neural signature correlating with a different emotional response. There's no causal link here, meaning that I might still tell someone to just shrug it off. Maybe they can control their neural activity, just like I can control my neural activity related to thinking about elephants by not thinking about elephants. To your second point, I would offer two responses. First, while being able to measure something is a win in itself, we need to be clear about what they're measuring. They have shown that suffering ailment X increases the probability that they find neural signature X. They do not know the reverse, meaning this isn't going to unlock early diagnostics or anything. It is unclear how discriminating this response is. Second, it's not clear that this is the product/effect of the way their "brain is wired". Perhaps changes in neural activity caused the observations of different neural connectivity. Perhaps some other factor of their experience or biology caused this sensitivity and the visible differences in connectivity, neural activity, etc. We just don't know. (P.S. Listening to people eat drives me insane. I'm not going to self-diagnose, but I just want to be clear that I'm not criticizing the finding/report because of a lack of empathy for the sufferers.) (P.P.S. I'm a recovering cognitive scientist who had to hear about a lot of neuropsych findings that all boiled down to, "This part of the brain lights up when we hear/see/do this! Give me another $5mm grant!").
atombender 10y ago
As a self-diagnosed misophonic, working in an open office has always been a struggle. A great pair of noise-canceling earbuds is an absolute must (the Bose QC20 are fantastic). I wonder if misophonia is correlated with awareness. I'm maddeningly hyperaware of my surroundings, and have difficulty getting into "the zone" if there's too much auditory and visual stimuli. For example, if someone is talking in the same room, it's almost impossible for me not to follow what that person is saying; I can't tune it out unless there's something else that drowns it out. (Radios are incredibly annoying for the same reason. I can't sleep if I can hear people talking in another room; even music with vocals have the same effect.) Being hyperaware has its benefits, of course, but it's mostly a curse.
- gukov 10y ago
  I'm also hyperaware (I call it hypersensitive). It's a good thing if you're a bodyguard, but otherwise it's absolutely a curse. Noise cancelling headphones are a must. Also, music can be too distracting. I recommend white noise. YouTube has plenty 10 hour long videos with pure white noise.
  - appleflaxen 10y ago
    10 hours!? Can't someone "wrap" a 10-second clip and let you play it in a loop? It's white noise, for pete's sake.
  - memco 10y ago
    Don't forget brown or pink noise for a more soothing sound (IMO). Until a few weeks ago, I never knew there were other colors of noise. Since discovering them, I have found them to be preferable for my ears over white noise.
    - cname 10y ago
      I also recommend brown noise. It's much nicer than white noise. I use the `play` command that's part of `sox` for this.
- 10y ago
pklausler 10y ago
Just because I may have "misophonia" doesn't mean that it's necessarily my problem if I'm distracted in an open office plan by colleagues who like to talk loudly to themselves, play drum solos on Tupperware containers, or move a pound of gelatinous substances via air pressure from one sinus cavity to another all effing day long.
- explainthisth 10y ago
  Whether it is "your problem" or "their problem" depends on what you can do about it.
- SerLava 10y ago
  >or move a pound of gelatinous substances via air pressure from one sinus cavity to another all effing day long. Well, they chose oxygen instead of making you happy...
codezero 10y ago
I only recently discovered there was a name for what I experience. I was surprised to find it's pretty rare, but it helped me at least feel a lot more empathy towards people who make chewing noises!
synthmeat 10y ago
As someone who physically lashed out on human beings making annoying sounds, regretting it and apologizing immediately after each time, I've developed only single coping mechanism for it that doesn't at the same time destroy my productivity and concentration (like most music that'd wash over such noise does) - rain sounds.
tolger 10y ago
This is very interesting. I think I have a mild version of this. Since I was a young (6 or 7) kid I remember how it pissed me off when someone would make noises while I was watching TV. It used to be enough for me to storm out of the room. Nowadays, I have more control, but it still bothers me when my office mate munches on chips or an apple at work. I usually put on my noise cancelling headphones and listen to death metal, and that takes care of the problem.
- edem 10y ago
  Cannibal Corpse - Hammer Smashed Face?
  - sampo 10y ago
    That kind of brutal metal usually has several small pauses and other almost quiet moments in the songs, so outside noise can be heard during those moments. More melodic subgenres of metal usually have more continuous song structures. Melodic metal fills in also in the higher frequency bands better than brutal metal.
    - edem 10y ago
      Quite interesting approach. You might like Meshuggah then. Catch 33 fits what you describe.
      - tolger 10y ago
        The Duskfall, Mors Principium Est or Kataklysm are my faves. Melodic but not too melodic like Dark Tranquility.
jhedwards 10y ago
What about countries where making sounds while eating is the norm? When I lived in China the majority of people made sounds while eating and I never met someone who was annoyed by it. This fact, while anecdotal, seems to suggest that misophonia is learned or cultural.
- sampo 10y ago
  According to this article, misophonia occurs in China, too. There is even a support group in Baidu. http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1030060.shtml http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1030060.shtml
tominous 10y ago
> it's the fight or flight response One time I was watching TV, a nature documentary, with my pet rabbit hopping around nearby. You should have seen her reaction when they played the sound of a rattlesnake on TV! Poor bunny was out of the room in no time and stayed quivering and stamping for quite a while. So when I read about things like misphonia or even food aversion, my first thought is that these people may be showing the rough outline of genetic variants that may, in the right circumstances, be advantageous. (Of course most times it's maladaptive, but you need that initial variance for evolution to act on). Lo and behold: https://blog.23andme.com/23andme-research/something-to-chew-on/ https://blog.23andme.com/23andme-research/something-to-chew-...
qwartzworld 10y ago
I work with someone who does not close their mouth at all when they chew. It drove me so nuts that I make sure as much as possible to not eat lunch at the same time. Revolting. I have not figured out a way to tell a grown adult to shut their mouth when they eat and not have it come across bad.
pizzetta 10y ago
Some cultures are less sensitive to these noises than others --in some places, people chew open-mouthed normally, which can get some getting used to as someone used to chewing mouth closed.
wrp 10y ago
I suggest we take the discussion of misphonia with a grain of salt. It seems to be ignoring the very large cultural factor. As an American who has lived around Europe, Asia, and the Middle East, I've observed a great variation in what counts as acceptable table manners. East Asian culture in particular seems to accept a lot more chomping and smacking at the table, and this seems to be a general complaint among Westerners, not just a few individuals. Secondly, as with anything else psychological, there will be individual variation. I feel there is too much eagerness to isolate some end of a continuum and label it as a syndrome. For example, I've always found notable the fact that some people can't comprehend why neighbors would be bothered by a loud stereo and others can't comprehend how anyone could not be bothered. Though there is a significant psychological variation there, I would not label either group as suffering from a syndrome. As for dealing with irritating background sounds, in addition to white noise, I've found earplugs very helpful in some situations. The best ones I know of are Hearos Xtreme Protection. https://www.amazon.com/Hearos-Plugs-Xtreme-Protection-pairs/dp/B001EPQ86A https://www.amazon.com/Hearos-Plugs-Xtreme-Protection-pairs/...
- waqf 10y ago
  sampo posted an article about misophonia in China: http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1030060.shtml http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1030060.shtml
- Lukman 10y ago
  The attitude you express towards Misophonia is one of the reasons why having this disorder is such a burden. It has nothing to do with table manners. There is nothing rational, or for that matter culturally relevant, about the emotional reaction I have to someone eating an apple next to me. The visceral, angry emotional response I feel to that sound has nothing to do with culture.
  - jklinger410 10y ago
    >The visceral, angry emotional response I feel to that sound has nothing to do with culture. So, you can't be wrong about this?
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
dghughes 10y ago
I don't know if I have misophonia but please tell me I'm not the only one who finds it incredibly annoying when people suck their teeth in public.
checkoutmygenes 10y ago
there's also a genetic link to misophonia: https://blog.23andme.com/23andme-research/something-to-chew-on/ https://blog.23andme.com/23andme-research/something-to-chew-...
b6 10y ago
I think there's another way to attack the problem. I assume that the anger is arising for good reason, that it is (or at least was) helpful to human creatures. So it may be really difficult or impossible to prevent the anger from arising. But when you meditate, one thing you slowly but deeply learn is that your thoughts are not you. Thoughts that bring you happiness arise even when you didn't ask them to, and you want them to stay forever, but they don't. Thoughts that make you feel bad arise even though you obviously didn't want them to, and you try to make them go away, but they stay as long as they want. But they eventually go. So over time, as meditation practice develops, it can be as if you build a second mind behind the first mind, and you live in that more quiet mind, watching the first mind, seeing, e.g., wow, OK, there is anger in the mind. But there's a distance because you know it's not you. It's there but it doesn't move you so much.
- bitexploder 10y ago
  That is quite eloquently put. I am reminded of Minsky and his color to this. It is a useful view. To characterize emotions and feelings as subroutines that input to your higher consciousness. Having that distance to say "ok, anger is activating, what is it trying to tell "me"?" Happy and sad are the same. These feelings arent "you". They are inputs to your "you". When you can observe these feeling you can at times become powerfully separated. But I also like to embrace the holistic integration at times. To be "human" and let it all jumble together. It is quite beautiful and tragic at times. (Minsky, society of the mind).

100 points by daegloe 10y ago

My explanation was "we find the other's enjoyment intolerable", but I guess this one is better.

For myself I thought it bothered me because of how I was raised (not to chew with mouth open, smacking sounds, eat quietly, etc)

Lukman 10y ago
Same here. I think this is evidence of genetic factors - i.e. my dad has a mild case and it manifested in him being very emphatic about training us not to make sounds while eating.
- checkoutmygenes 10y ago
  There are genetic factors!
TomTomXC 10y ago
Exactly. We are forcefully taught to fight these behaviours in ourselves very early on, often before we gain consciousness and memory as children. That will lead parts of our brain to detest and fight those behaviours in others laters on, bot on a subconscious level which makes it hard to change.

ENTP 10y ago

I know someone who smacks their lips loudly when eating. Although noises in general don't irritate me as per the article, this person's eating noise riles me. Like another commentor, i think it's just a manners thing.

sunnyP 10y ago

Eating sounds combined with an open office plan is enough to make my head explode.

brockf 10y ago

How is this an "explanation" or "cracking" the problem? They showed that an emotional response was correlated with neural behavior... what else could it have been? More broadly, it's frustrating that neuroscientists reframe genuinely interesting questions ("Why do I get angry when people eat apples beside me?") into boring questions ("What does my brain look like when I'm angry about someone eating an apple?").

Paul-ish 10y ago
But that does seem like the first step to answering the question.
- chris_wot 10y ago
  I'm trying to understand why seeing what the brain looks like after hearing someone eat an apple is not interesting?
- brockf 10y ago
  I never said it wasn't the first step, but it's heralded (by the media at least) as much more than that -- an explanation or a conclusion.
sampo 10y ago
> How is this an "explanation" or "cracking" the problem? They showed that an emotional response was correlated with neural behavior... what else could it have been? There are Facebook support groups, and a subreddit, for people suffering form this disorder, and it's not uncommon that family members, spouses and friends think they are just being obnoxious, and advise them to "just shrug it off". If it's a measurable neurophysiological condition, this gives some support that those people just cannot shrug it off, whatever they try. It can also help the sufferers to know that they are not being just crazy, but something really is different in the way their brain is wired.
- brockf 10y ago
  To your first point, I'm not sure how this helps the sufferers. What they have shown is that there is a different neural signature correlating with a different emotional response. There's no causal link here, meaning that I might still tell someone to just shrug it off. Maybe they can control their neural activity, just like I can control my neural activity related to thinking about elephants by not thinking about elephants. To your second point, I would offer two responses. First, while being able to measure something is a win in itself, we need to be clear about what they're measuring. They have shown that suffering ailment X increases the probability that they find neural signature X. They do not know the reverse, meaning this isn't going to unlock early diagnostics or anything. It is unclear how discriminating this response is. Second, it's not clear that this is the product/effect of the way their "brain is wired". Perhaps changes in neural activity caused the observations of different neural connectivity. Perhaps some other factor of their experience or biology caused this sensitivity and the visible differences in connectivity, neural activity, etc. We just don't know. (P.S. Listening to people eat drives me insane. I'm not going to self-diagnose, but I just want to be clear that I'm not criticizing the finding/report because of a lack of empathy for the sufferers.) (P.P.S. I'm a recovering cognitive scientist who had to hear about a lot of neuropsych findings that all boiled down to, "This part of the brain lights up when we hear/see/do this! Give me another $5mm grant!").

atombender 10y ago

As a self-diagnosed misophonic, working in an open office has always been a struggle. A great pair of noise-canceling earbuds is an absolute must (the Bose QC20 are fantastic). I wonder if misophonia is correlated with awareness. I'm maddeningly hyperaware of my surroundings, and have difficulty getting into "the zone" if there's too much auditory and visual stimuli. For example, if someone is talking in the same room, it's almost impossible for me not to follow what that person is saying; I can't tune it out unless there's something else that drowns it out. (Radios are incredibly annoying for the same reason. I can't sleep if I can hear people talking in another room; even music with vocals have the same effect.) Being hyperaware has its benefits, of course, but it's mostly a curse.

gukov 10y ago
I'm also hyperaware (I call it hypersensitive). It's a good thing if you're a bodyguard, but otherwise it's absolutely a curse. Noise cancelling headphones are a must. Also, music can be too distracting. I recommend white noise. YouTube has plenty 10 hour long videos with pure white noise.
- appleflaxen 10y ago
  10 hours!? Can't someone "wrap" a 10-second clip and let you play it in a loop? It's white noise, for pete's sake.
- memco 10y ago
  Don't forget brown or pink noise for a more soothing sound (IMO). Until a few weeks ago, I never knew there were other colors of noise. Since discovering them, I have found them to be preferable for my ears over white noise.
  - cname 10y ago
    I also recommend brown noise. It's much nicer than white noise. I use the `play` command that's part of `sox` for this.
10y ago

pklausler 10y ago

Just because I may have "misophonia" doesn't mean that it's necessarily my problem if I'm distracted in an open office plan by colleagues who like to talk loudly to themselves, play drum solos on Tupperware containers, or move a pound of gelatinous substances via air pressure from one sinus cavity to another all effing day long.

explainthisth 10y ago
Whether it is "your problem" or "their problem" depends on what you can do about it.
SerLava 10y ago
>or move a pound of gelatinous substances via air pressure from one sinus cavity to another all effing day long. Well, they chose oxygen instead of making you happy...

codezero 10y ago

I only recently discovered there was a name for what I experience. I was surprised to find it's pretty rare, but it helped me at least feel a lot more empathy towards people who make chewing noises!

synthmeat 10y ago

As someone who physically lashed out on human beings making annoying sounds, regretting it and apologizing immediately after each time, I've developed only single coping mechanism for it that doesn't at the same time destroy my productivity and concentration (like most music that'd wash over such noise does) - rain sounds.

tolger 10y ago

This is very interesting. I think I have a mild version of this. Since I was a young (6 or 7) kid I remember how it pissed me off when someone would make noises while I was watching TV. It used to be enough for me to storm out of the room. Nowadays, I have more control, but it still bothers me when my office mate munches on chips or an apple at work. I usually put on my noise cancelling headphones and listen to death metal, and that takes care of the problem.

edem 10y ago
Cannibal Corpse - Hammer Smashed Face?
- sampo 10y ago
  That kind of brutal metal usually has several small pauses and other almost quiet moments in the songs, so outside noise can be heard during those moments. More melodic subgenres of metal usually have more continuous song structures. Melodic metal fills in also in the higher frequency bands better than brutal metal.
  - edem 10y ago
    Quite interesting approach. You might like Meshuggah then. Catch 33 fits what you describe.
    - tolger 10y ago
      The Duskfall, Mors Principium Est or Kataklysm are my faves. Melodic but not too melodic like Dark Tranquility.

jhedwards 10y ago

What about countries where making sounds while eating is the norm? When I lived in China the majority of people made sounds while eating and I never met someone who was annoyed by it. This fact, while anecdotal, seems to suggest that misophonia is learned or cultural.

sampo 10y ago
According to this article, misophonia occurs in China, too. There is even a support group in Baidu. http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1030060.shtml http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1030060.shtml

tominous 10y ago

> it's the fight or flight response One time I was watching TV, a nature documentary, with my pet rabbit hopping around nearby. You should have seen her reaction when they played the sound of a rattlesnake on TV! Poor bunny was out of the room in no time and stayed quivering and stamping for quite a while. So when I read about things like misphonia or even food aversion, my first thought is that these people may be showing the rough outline of genetic variants that may, in the right circumstances, be advantageous. (Of course most times it's maladaptive, but you need that initial variance for evolution to act on). Lo and behold: https://blog.23andme.com/23andme-research/something-to-chew-on/ https://blog.23andme.com/23andme-research/something-to-chew-...

qwartzworld 10y ago

I work with someone who does not close their mouth at all when they chew. It drove me so nuts that I make sure as much as possible to not eat lunch at the same time. Revolting. I have not figured out a way to tell a grown adult to shut their mouth when they eat and not have it come across bad.

pizzetta 10y ago

Some cultures are less sensitive to these noises than others --in some places, people chew open-mouthed normally, which can get some getting used to as someone used to chewing mouth closed.

wrp 10y ago

I suggest we take the discussion of misphonia with a grain of salt. It seems to be ignoring the very large cultural factor. As an American who has lived around Europe, Asia, and the Middle East, I've observed a great variation in what counts as acceptable table manners. East Asian culture in particular seems to accept a lot more chomping and smacking at the table, and this seems to be a general complaint among Westerners, not just a few individuals. Secondly, as with anything else psychological, there will be individual variation. I feel there is too much eagerness to isolate some end of a continuum and label it as a syndrome. For example, I've always found notable the fact that some people can't comprehend why neighbors would be bothered by a loud stereo and others can't comprehend how anyone could not be bothered. Though there is a significant psychological variation there, I would not label either group as suffering from a syndrome. As for dealing with irritating background sounds, in addition to white noise, I've found earplugs very helpful in some situations. The best ones I know of are Hearos Xtreme Protection. https://www.amazon.com/Hearos-Plugs-Xtreme-Protection-pairs/dp/B001EPQ86A https://www.amazon.com/Hearos-Plugs-Xtreme-Protection-pairs/...

waqf 10y ago
sampo posted an article about misophonia in China: http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1030060.shtml http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1030060.shtml
Lukman 10y ago
The attitude you express towards Misophonia is one of the reasons why having this disorder is such a burden. It has nothing to do with table manners. There is nothing rational, or for that matter culturally relevant, about the emotional reaction I have to someone eating an apple next to me. The visceral, angry emotional response I feel to that sound has nothing to do with culture.
- jklinger410 10y ago
  >The visceral, angry emotional response I feel to that sound has nothing to do with culture. So, you can't be wrong about this?

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

dghughes 10y ago

I don't know if I have misophonia but please tell me I'm not the only one who finds it incredibly annoying when people suck their teeth in public.

checkoutmygenes 10y ago

there's also a genetic link to misophonia: https://blog.23andme.com/23andme-research/something-to-chew-on/ https://blog.23andme.com/23andme-research/something-to-chew-...

b6 10y ago

I think there's another way to attack the problem. I assume that the anger is arising for good reason, that it is (or at least was) helpful to human creatures. So it may be really difficult or impossible to prevent the anger from arising. But when you meditate, one thing you slowly but deeply learn is that your thoughts are not you. Thoughts that bring you happiness arise even when you didn't ask them to, and you want them to stay forever, but they don't. Thoughts that make you feel bad arise even though you obviously didn't want them to, and you try to make them go away, but they stay as long as they want. But they eventually go. So over time, as meditation practice develops, it can be as if you build a second mind behind the first mind, and you live in that more quiet mind, watching the first mind, seeing, e.g., wow, OK, there is anger in the mind. But there's a distance because you know it's not you. It's there but it doesn't move you so much.

bitexploder 10y ago
That is quite eloquently put. I am reminded of Minsky and his color to this. It is a useful view. To characterize emotions and feelings as subroutines that input to your higher consciousness. Having that distance to say "ok, anger is activating, what is it trying to tell "me"?" Happy and sad are the same. These feelings arent "you". They are inputs to your "you". When you can observe these feeling you can at times become powerfully separated. But I also like to embrace the holistic integration at times. To be "human" and let it all jumble together. It is quite beautiful and tragic at times. (Minsky, society of the mind).