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If the jobs _couldn't_ be outsourced, wouldn't _somebody_ local have to do them? Even if automation was fast-tracked to swallow those jobs, if the manufacture a

If the jobs _couldn't_ be outsourced, wouldn't _somebody_ local have to do them? Even if automation was fast-tracked to swallow those jobs, if the manufacture and operations management of automation solutions also could not be outsourced, wouldn't that at least bring more jobs to the market?

mattnewton 10y ago
They goods would have to be tarrifed to the point where making them locally made sense. Its possible they jack up prices in the medium term and instead of retooling an equivalent American team spend that time on automating with a much smaller specialized american team.
dmode 10y ago
Here's how it plays out in a protectionist world. Let's say the US government bans smartphone imports and forces manufacturers to set-up shop in the US. What Apple would do then, they would heavily invest in automation. So the number of jobs it could create here won't be at the same scale as in India. Then to maintain the same margins as the current iPhone, Apple will raise their prices. Consumers would probably still buy those phones, but the rates of upgrades and new phone purchase would dramatically reduce. That will mean Apple will not require all the retail locations they have now or the exhaustive supply chain and shipping network. Leading to loss of jobs in those areas. In addition, not all manufacturers can compete at that price point, as consumers are simply not ready to pay that much money for HTC. Which means there will be a gradual move towards monopoly and ultimately Apple and Samsung will be the only players left in the smartphone market with no incentive to innovate but all the incentives to bring their cost down. This is exactly how it played out in India with Hindustan Motors and Maruti being the only two car manufacturers.
- cmdrfred 10y ago
  If you break down where the parts of a iPhone is made. You have some relatively high wage nations in there. I'd like to see a breakdown of how much of the price of the iPhone actually ends up in the pockets of workers. I'd wager like most other goods it's fractional compared to the cost of materials, taxes and regulatory compliance. I suspect making products overseas is more to do with environmental and labor regulations than wages.
louhike 10y ago
Won't other countries tend to buy less from protectionist countries? (genuine question, I would like to know) If it is the case, it will be no use to make iphones in the USA if they can not be sold.
- dukeluke 10y ago
  You raise a good point. Protectionism would really hurt countries that depend on exports, like a lot of Eastern Asia. Would it hurt a country like America that depends more on imports and is big enough to have its own industry? I don't think it would, but there are obviously many who disagree with me. I would love it if someone had some data showing me I'm wrong.
wcummings 10y ago
>if the manufacture and operations management of automation solutions also could not be outsourced, wouldn't that at least bring more jobs to the market? I believe these are the jobs people talk about when they talk about "high tech manufacturing". To do manufacturing in rich countries it needs to be efficient, which means skilled jobs. The problem is for people who don't have the skills and want their old unskilled manufacturing jobs back.

mattnewton 10y ago

They goods would have to be tarrifed to the point where making them locally made sense. Its possible they jack up prices in the medium term and instead of retooling an equivalent American team spend that time on automating with a much smaller specialized american team.

dmode 10y ago

Here's how it plays out in a protectionist world. Let's say the US government bans smartphone imports and forces manufacturers to set-up shop in the US. What Apple would do then, they would heavily invest in automation. So the number of jobs it could create here won't be at the same scale as in India. Then to maintain the same margins as the current iPhone, Apple will raise their prices. Consumers would probably still buy those phones, but the rates of upgrades and new phone purchase would dramatically reduce. That will mean Apple will not require all the retail locations they have now or the exhaustive supply chain and shipping network. Leading to loss of jobs in those areas. In addition, not all manufacturers can compete at that price point, as consumers are simply not ready to pay that much money for HTC. Which means there will be a gradual move towards monopoly and ultimately Apple and Samsung will be the only players left in the smartphone market with no incentive to innovate but all the incentives to bring their cost down. This is exactly how it played out in India with Hindustan Motors and Maruti being the only two car manufacturers.

cmdrfred 10y ago
If you break down where the parts of a iPhone is made. You have some relatively high wage nations in there. I'd like to see a breakdown of how much of the price of the iPhone actually ends up in the pockets of workers. I'd wager like most other goods it's fractional compared to the cost of materials, taxes and regulatory compliance. I suspect making products overseas is more to do with environmental and labor regulations than wages.

louhike 10y ago

Won't other countries tend to buy less from protectionist countries? (genuine question, I would like to know) If it is the case, it will be no use to make iphones in the USA if they can not be sold.

dukeluke 10y ago
You raise a good point. Protectionism would really hurt countries that depend on exports, like a lot of Eastern Asia. Would it hurt a country like America that depends more on imports and is big enough to have its own industry? I don't think it would, but there are obviously many who disagree with me. I would love it if someone had some data showing me I'm wrong.

wcummings 10y ago

>if the manufacture and operations management of automation solutions also could not be outsourced, wouldn't that at least bring more jobs to the market? I believe these are the jobs people talk about when they talk about "high tech manufacturing". To do manufacturing in rich countries it needs to be efficient, which means skilled jobs. The problem is for people who don't have the skills and want their old unskilled manufacturing jobs back.