4 ms·

I belive doing typical oci-standard docker image suites portability and servers and sysadmin more than canonical's non-standard vendor lockins

by alsadi 10y ago

cyphar 10y ago
Docker != OCI. Please don't confuse the two.
- alsadi 10y ago
  Docker inc. is a key member of oci which is under linux foundation https://www.opencontainers.org/faq https://www.opencontainers.org/faq
  - cyphar 10y ago
    Docker Inc is one of many members of the OCI and is by no means the most major contributor. [I'm one of the maintainers of runC and am very involved in the OCI.]
    - alsadi 10y ago
      thank you.
timthelion 10y ago
What kind of image format does snap use? Is packaging complicated? I've noted that flatpak is a nightmare to package for. I created subuser <subuser.org> which runs on top of Docker, and of course, packaging is as simple as it is with Docker... The big problem is that when you want to update something, it is hard to do so without making everyone have to download a huge image all over again. Of course, you can try to prevent this with layers, but usually updates don't just touch the top layer :( ... So what I really want in the future is to be able to use IPFS or some kind of bittorrent-like download interface for images, so that when you update an image, you only have to download the parts that changed. There is a GREAT demo by a guy named Mathias Buus on this very topic here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Sc6_XgNXyk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Sc6_XgNXyk which really gives you a feel for the awsome that would be deduplicated content addressed Docker. Flatpak has something sorta similar, they use OSTree under the hood. https://github.com/ostreedev/ostree https://github.com/ostreedev/ostree which is basically git annex for people who like incompatible redhat/freedesktop specific implementations of generic algorithms. It also does dedup, but at the file level not the block level, and so flatpak should be better at handling updates than subuser/Docker. Then again, who wants to repackage everything with their weird "standard" overcomplicated image format when you can just use Docker and throw anything you like into the image, however you like to throw it....
- coreycb 10y ago
  You can just use a base Ubuntu 16.04 image or greater. Creating a snap is very simple. Here's the source for snap-openstackclients: https://github.com/openstack/snap-openstackclients https://github.com/openstack/snap-openstackclients
  - timthelion 10y ago
    Thanks for the link. I'm not going to provide an opinion in a HN/while-on-the-front-page timescale, because I'd like to actually study the system that you use and come to an educated conclusion.
    - coreycb 10y ago
      No problem. If you have questions/comments later #openstack-snaps on freenode is a good place.
- mhall119 10y ago
  A snap is a squashfs of a directory with a metadata file in ./meta/snap.yaml We can also provide binary delta downloads of snaps.
- alsadi 10y ago
  We use ansible to generate small inremental updates of docker images. The ansible takes any base image and put it into desired state. We feed it a milestone image to generate a small layer over it. http://engineering.opensooq.com/manage-your-docker-image-layers-with-ansible/ http://engineering.opensooq.com/manage-your-docker-image-lay...
coreycb 10y ago
Snaps aren't limited to Ubuntu. I'm not sure the extent of support but just to note that there is support for other distros: https://snapcraft.io/ https://snapcraft.io/ They're a much easier way to package applications vs traditional packaging (ie apt, rpm).
- elopio 10y ago
  Here's the status of support everywhere: https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/wiki/Distributions https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/wiki/Distributions
- alsadi 10y ago
  Your meaning of everywhere is by having 3rd party non official repos that ship small copy of ubuntu core. Remind me why do steam do have to ship ubuntu's version of heavily patched libraries instead of using system upstrean version shipped by archlinux for example? If snap is not a vendor lockin trap what is the vendor lockin trap?

I belive doing typical oci-standard docker image suites portability and servers and sysadmin more than canonical's non-standard vendor lockins

by alsadi 10y ago

I belive doing typical oci-standard docker image suites portability and servers and sysadmin more than canonical's non-standard vendor lockins

cyphar 10y ago

Docker != OCI. Please don't confuse the two.

alsadi 10y ago
Docker inc. is a key member of oci which is under linux foundation https://www.opencontainers.org/faq https://www.opencontainers.org/faq
- cyphar 10y ago
  Docker Inc is one of many members of the OCI and is by no means the most major contributor. [I'm one of the maintainers of runC and am very involved in the OCI.]
  - alsadi 10y ago
    thank you.

timthelion 10y ago

What kind of image format does snap use? Is packaging complicated? I've noted that flatpak is a nightmare to package for. I created subuser <subuser.org> which runs on top of Docker, and of course, packaging is as simple as it is with Docker... The big problem is that when you want to update something, it is hard to do so without making everyone have to download a huge image all over again. Of course, you can try to prevent this with layers, but usually updates don't just touch the top layer :( ... So what I really want in the future is to be able to use IPFS or some kind of bittorrent-like download interface for images, so that when you update an image, you only have to download the parts that changed. There is a GREAT demo by a guy named Mathias Buus on this very topic here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Sc6_XgNXyk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Sc6_XgNXyk which really gives you a feel for the awsome that would be deduplicated content addressed Docker. Flatpak has something sorta similar, they use OSTree under the hood. https://github.com/ostreedev/ostree https://github.com/ostreedev/ostree which is basically git annex for people who like incompatible redhat/freedesktop specific implementations of generic algorithms. It also does dedup, but at the file level not the block level, and so flatpak should be better at handling updates than subuser/Docker. Then again, who wants to repackage everything with their weird "standard" overcomplicated image format when you can just use Docker and throw anything you like into the image, however you like to throw it....

coreycb 10y ago
You can just use a base Ubuntu 16.04 image or greater. Creating a snap is very simple. Here's the source for snap-openstackclients: https://github.com/openstack/snap-openstackclients https://github.com/openstack/snap-openstackclients
- timthelion 10y ago
  Thanks for the link. I'm not going to provide an opinion in a HN/while-on-the-front-page timescale, because I'd like to actually study the system that you use and come to an educated conclusion.
  - coreycb 10y ago
    No problem. If you have questions/comments later #openstack-snaps on freenode is a good place.
mhall119 10y ago
A snap is a squashfs of a directory with a metadata file in ./meta/snap.yaml We can also provide binary delta downloads of snaps.
alsadi 10y ago
We use ansible to generate small inremental updates of docker images. The ansible takes any base image and put it into desired state. We feed it a milestone image to generate a small layer over it. http://engineering.opensooq.com/manage-your-docker-image-layers-with-ansible/ http://engineering.opensooq.com/manage-your-docker-image-lay...

coreycb 10y ago

Snaps aren't limited to Ubuntu. I'm not sure the extent of support but just to note that there is support for other distros: https://snapcraft.io/ https://snapcraft.io/ They're a much easier way to package applications vs traditional packaging (ie apt, rpm).

elopio 10y ago
Here's the status of support everywhere: https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/wiki/Distributions https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/wiki/Distributions
alsadi 10y ago
Your meaning of everywhere is by having 3rd party non official repos that ship small copy of ubuntu core. Remind me why do steam do have to ship ubuntu's version of heavily patched libraries instead of using system upstrean version shipped by archlinux for example? If snap is not a vendor lockin trap what is the vendor lockin trap?