4 ms·

I’m not an expert here, but in the article it says he had a diplomatic passport. If that was so, and he’s an accredited diplomat, then the Vienna Convention (ra

by egwynn 10y ago

I’m not an expert here, but in the article it says he had a diplomatic passport. If that was so, and he’s an accredited diplomat, then the Vienna Convention (ratified in the USA and Norway both) applies here. It says that diplomats are not to be arrested or detained. http://www.corpsdiplomatique.cd/VIENNA_CONVENTION_1961_ON_DIPLOMATIC_RELATIONS.pdf http://www.corpsdiplomatique.cd/VIENNA_CONVENTION_1961_ON_DI... Article 29 The person of a diplomatic agent shall be inviolable. He shall not be liable to any form of arrest or detention. The receiving State shall treat him with due respect and shall take all appropriate steps to prevent any attack on his person, freedom or dignity. You can disagree with our participation in the treaty, but it’s what we’ve got!

StavrosK 10y ago
However, he didn't say "I was held even though I'm a diplomat", he said "they shouldn't have held me after they saw I was PM of Norway, they should have realized I'm not dangerous". I half-agree with the GP, that he shouldn't be above the law just because he was PM, but also, the purpose of detaining and questioning people for entry is to determine whether they pose a risk (even though I think that's dumb). A former PM is probably very low on that list.
- egwynn 10y ago
  FTA: It should be enough when they found that I have a diplomatic passport, [that I’m a] former prime minister. EDIT: The article doesn’t totally, clearly, and unambiguously say, “the subject of this article is an accredited diplomat.” If that’s not so, then obviously my comment doesn’t apply. But it’s certainly suggested by his claim that he has a diplomatic passport.
  - StavrosK 10y ago
    Yes, but the following sentence is: “It should be enough when they found that I have a diplomatic passport, [that I’m a] former prime minister. That should be enough for them to understand that I don’t represent any problem or threat to this country and [to] let me go immediately, but they didn’t.” And: “I was surprised, and I was provoked,” he said. “What will the reputation of the US be if this happens not only to me, but also to other international leaders?” So he doesn't really care about the "brown person" paranoia, all he cares about is "diplomats shouldn't be treated like Arabs", which I personally find distasteful.
    - egwynn 10y ago
      It sounds like you're saying that you think he's capitulating the conceit that arabs are terrorists? I don't really read his words that way, but I guess I can see it. And if so, then yes: definitely distasteful.
      - StavrosK 10y ago
        I don't know if he's so directly thinking that, but there's definitely an element of "I'm above these others in this room".
- elthran 10y ago
  "He was held for an hour after customs agents saw in his diplomatic passport that he had been to Iran in 2014" He had a diplomatic passport.
  - InitialLastName 10y ago
    As others have noted, holding a diplomatic passport doesn't mean that any given country recognizes you as a diplomat. "Diplomatic passport — Issued to diplomats of a country and their accompanying dependents for official international travel and residence. Accredited diplomats of certain grades may be granted diplomatic immunity by a host country, but this is not automatically conferred by holding a diplomatic passport."[0] [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passport#Diplomatic_passport https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passport#Diplomatic_passport
WildUtah 10y ago
Since he's not a government official—the story is quite explicit that he's working for a private organization—he's fraudulently travelling on a diplomatic passport. He should have been arrested at the border, interrogated, barred permanently from the USA, and deported.
- lawless123 10y ago
  Hell yeah, lets waterboard him with mountain dew too , and let him know the taste of Freedom TM.
- angry_octet 10y ago
  Do you really think that former Prime Ministers travel on regular passports? Don't be dense.
  - WildUtah 10y ago
    Prime minister of tiny Norway is about as powerful and important as a small city mayor in the USA. Do retired small city mayors travel in first class on diplomatic passports and expect to be free from customs and immigration rules that apply to everyone else? They do not. He isn't a fairytale prince. When he loses his post, he can travel on legitimate documents like the rest of us.
    - __derek__ 10y ago
      Which cities? I'd be surprised to discover that small city mayors participate in climate, NATO, and EEA negotiations.
- egwynn 10y ago
  That's possible. But to me it's not totally obvious. He said the US embassy in Oslo checked/authorized his travel credentials. So either he's lying or the US embassy fucked up. Either way, it sounds like situations like these used to be handled a little more smoothly/amicably. If two nations are friendly to each other, and one fucks up, what's the use in antagonism?
detaro 10y ago
I don't think he would have accreditation to the US, when he is just traveling for a specific event there and explicitly asked the US embassy if his travel documents are ok beforehand. Without accreditation, a diplomatic passport mostly is a way of saying "in some way representing our country, please treat accordingly" as far as I know.
RcouF1uZ4gsC 10y ago
I think there is a difference between a diplomatic passport, and a diplomatic agent. Just because a country issues you a diplomatic passport does not mean the US considers you a diplomatic agent. For example, in the recent Chinese billionaire arrest, I think he had a Panamanian diplomatic passport, but was not a diplomatic agent.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

by egwynn 10y ago

StavrosK 10y ago

However, he didn't say "I was held even though I'm a diplomat", he said "they shouldn't have held me after they saw I was PM of Norway, they should have realized I'm not dangerous". I half-agree with the GP, that he shouldn't be above the law just because he was PM, but also, the purpose of detaining and questioning people for entry is to determine whether they pose a risk (even though I think that's dumb). A former PM is probably very low on that list.

egwynn 10y ago
FTA: It should be enough when they found that I have a diplomatic passport, [that I’m a] former prime minister. EDIT: The article doesn’t totally, clearly, and unambiguously say, “the subject of this article is an accredited diplomat.” If that’s not so, then obviously my comment doesn’t apply. But it’s certainly suggested by his claim that he has a diplomatic passport.
- StavrosK 10y ago
  Yes, but the following sentence is: “It should be enough when they found that I have a diplomatic passport, [that I’m a] former prime minister. That should be enough for them to understand that I don’t represent any problem or threat to this country and [to] let me go immediately, but they didn’t.” And: “I was surprised, and I was provoked,” he said. “What will the reputation of the US be if this happens not only to me, but also to other international leaders?” So he doesn't really care about the "brown person" paranoia, all he cares about is "diplomats shouldn't be treated like Arabs", which I personally find distasteful.
  - egwynn 10y ago
    It sounds like you're saying that you think he's capitulating the conceit that arabs are terrorists? I don't really read his words that way, but I guess I can see it. And if so, then yes: definitely distasteful.
    - StavrosK 10y ago
      I don't know if he's so directly thinking that, but there's definitely an element of "I'm above these others in this room".
elthran 10y ago
"He was held for an hour after customs agents saw in his diplomatic passport that he had been to Iran in 2014" He had a diplomatic passport.
- InitialLastName 10y ago
  As others have noted, holding a diplomatic passport doesn't mean that any given country recognizes you as a diplomat. "Diplomatic passport — Issued to diplomats of a country and their accompanying dependents for official international travel and residence. Accredited diplomats of certain grades may be granted diplomatic immunity by a host country, but this is not automatically conferred by holding a diplomatic passport."[0] [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passport#Diplomatic_passport https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passport#Diplomatic_passport

WildUtah 10y ago

Since he's not a government official—the story is quite explicit that he's working for a private organization—he's fraudulently travelling on a diplomatic passport. He should have been arrested at the border, interrogated, barred permanently from the USA, and deported.

lawless123 10y ago
Hell yeah, lets waterboard him with mountain dew too , and let him know the taste of Freedom TM.
angry_octet 10y ago
Do you really think that former Prime Ministers travel on regular passports? Don't be dense.
- WildUtah 10y ago
  Prime minister of tiny Norway is about as powerful and important as a small city mayor in the USA. Do retired small city mayors travel in first class on diplomatic passports and expect to be free from customs and immigration rules that apply to everyone else? They do not. He isn't a fairytale prince. When he loses his post, he can travel on legitimate documents like the rest of us.
  - __derek__ 10y ago
    Which cities? I'd be surprised to discover that small city mayors participate in climate, NATO, and EEA negotiations.
egwynn 10y ago
That's possible. But to me it's not totally obvious. He said the US embassy in Oslo checked/authorized his travel credentials. So either he's lying or the US embassy fucked up. Either way, it sounds like situations like these used to be handled a little more smoothly/amicably. If two nations are friendly to each other, and one fucks up, what's the use in antagonism?

detaro 10y ago

I don't think he would have accreditation to the US, when he is just traveling for a specific event there and explicitly asked the US embassy if his travel documents are ok beforehand. Without accreditation, a diplomatic passport mostly is a way of saying "in some way representing our country, please treat accordingly" as far as I know.

RcouF1uZ4gsC 10y ago

I think there is a difference between a diplomatic passport, and a diplomatic agent. Just because a country issues you a diplomatic passport does not mean the US considers you a diplomatic agent. For example, in the recent Chinese billionaire arrest, I think he had a Panamanian diplomatic passport, but was not a diplomatic agent.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]