4 ms·

I guess we have different ideas on what makes a community. When I go to a local community barbeque, I hang out and chat as I graze on the food. Apparently you j

by vacri 10y ago

I guess we have different ideas on what makes a community. When I go to a local community barbeque, I hang out and chat as I graze on the food. Apparently you just silently shovel half the sausages into a knapsack, grab a pitcher of drink, and just fuck off without acknowledging anyone. Hey, the food was free, so why should they expect some social interaction, right? I mean, there wasn't a sign up saying "For every sausage, you must spend 5 minutes chatting", so it's not it's expected (or explicitly warranted), right?

clort 10y ago
I don't think your analogy works, quite. Principally, the food is a scarce resource whereas the equivalent to software would be where the community were competing amongst themselves to make a single great sausage; that sausage would be placed on a table by the kerb and people outside would be able to take away as many molecularly identical copies of the sausage as they provided energy to create. The community can socialise amongst themselves and you are free to join in but there is no requirement to do so.
- Chris2048 10y ago
  > the community were competing amongst themselves to make a single great sausage I think a great idea was just born! #sausagecoldwar
- vacri 10y ago
  However, maintaining a project over the course of years is not effortless on the part of the provider, as explicitly stated in the article. The problem isn't in the software itself being duplicated, it's in the labour around providing the service. To continue with the (now tortured) bbq analogy: as the sausages go cold (=software ages), someone has to cook up more fresh ones.
Chris2048 10y ago
> Apparently you just silently shovel... This poor characterisation of me has nothing to do with the topic, and is just abuse. There is an expectation at a BBQ, though this differs culturally. There is not such an expectation for FOSS projects, unless explicitlty stated somewhere. If you want to compare the two; tell me why BBQs are generally not open to anyone, whereas there are few restrictions on FOSS contributors? What are the consumables in a BBQ (food) versus a FOSS project (developer time), and who contributes these in each case?
- vacri 10y ago
  So, to repeat, "I guess we have different ideas on what makes a community." > tell me why BBQs are generally not open to anyone Hence why I specified "local community", not "someone's friend's backyard". In any case, you're missing the point of the analogy, and extend any analogy and it will fall apart. You're missing the human aspect of FOSS, instead interpreting it as a literal legal case. And yes, there is expectation in FOSS that others will pitch in and help when your project is extremely popular. ESR, coiner of the 'open source' term we're talking about, explicitly promoted it with the term 'enough eyeballs make all bugs shallow'. How is that not seen as an expectation of kicking back at least some effort?
  - Chris2048 10y ago
    The issue is the expectation that you will receive contributions, versus obligation on all users to contribute, and I don't think there is any obligation. ESRs quote praises the OS virtue of allowing source code to be read, it doesn't imply an obligation on all users of FOSS, legal, moral, or otherwise.

by vacri 10y ago

clort 10y ago

I don't think your analogy works, quite. Principally, the food is a scarce resource whereas the equivalent to software would be where the community were competing amongst themselves to make a single great sausage; that sausage would be placed on a table by the kerb and people outside would be able to take away as many molecularly identical copies of the sausage as they provided energy to create. The community can socialise amongst themselves and you are free to join in but there is no requirement to do so.

Chris2048 10y ago
> the community were competing amongst themselves to make a single great sausage I think a great idea was just born! #sausagecoldwar
vacri 10y ago
However, maintaining a project over the course of years is not effortless on the part of the provider, as explicitly stated in the article. The problem isn't in the software itself being duplicated, it's in the labour around providing the service. To continue with the (now tortured) bbq analogy: as the sausages go cold (=software ages), someone has to cook up more fresh ones.

Chris2048 10y ago

> Apparently you just silently shovel... This poor characterisation of me has nothing to do with the topic, and is just abuse. There is an expectation at a BBQ, though this differs culturally. There is not such an expectation for FOSS projects, unless explicitlty stated somewhere. If you want to compare the two; tell me why BBQs are generally not open to anyone, whereas there are few restrictions on FOSS contributors? What are the consumables in a BBQ (food) versus a FOSS project (developer time), and who contributes these in each case?

vacri 10y ago
So, to repeat, "I guess we have different ideas on what makes a community." > tell me why BBQs are generally not open to anyone Hence why I specified "local community", not "someone's friend's backyard". In any case, you're missing the point of the analogy, and extend any analogy and it will fall apart. You're missing the human aspect of FOSS, instead interpreting it as a literal legal case. And yes, there is expectation in FOSS that others will pitch in and help when your project is extremely popular. ESR, coiner of the 'open source' term we're talking about, explicitly promoted it with the term 'enough eyeballs make all bugs shallow'. How is that not seen as an expectation of kicking back at least some effort?
- Chris2048 10y ago
  The issue is the expectation that you will receive contributions, versus obligation on all users to contribute, and I don't think there is any obligation. ESRs quote praises the OS virtue of allowing source code to be read, it doesn't imply an obligation on all users of FOSS, legal, moral, or otherwise.