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Even if C# would be the most technical superior language ever made with every feature you could think of, a lot of developers still don't like it because: - C#

Even if C# would be the most technical superior language ever made with every feature you could think of, a lot of developers still don't like it because: - C# smells corporate, being used in many large scale business application. - C# is developed by Microsoft, a billion dollar company itself - The .NET platform is only partial open source So facts don't matter much, it's about smell :)

hacker_9 10y ago
Actually the main bashing point was C# is Windows only, and of course Windows isn't hipster. Anyway with .Net Core all of that goes away, and for Windows only users (90% of the market) it doesn't make a difference. Also why is it bad the language is developed by a billion dollar company? It means the language tooling is second to none, as well as having fully document libraries which can do everything, and are kept up to date.
adgasf 10y ago
Is that true anymore? I was under the impression that .NET is fully open source: https://dotnetfoundation.org/ https://dotnetfoundation.org/ Besides that though, C# is much nicer than Java and fills a similar niche.
- Matthias247 10y ago
  That covers the new .NET core parts, not the classic .NET. The classic .NET framework contains lots of components (e.g. WinForms, but also others) which are mainly wrappers around Windows/COM components. Therefore they can't be fully open source. Nevertheless the .NET core and open sourcing effort is great from my POV.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - radicalbyte 10y ago
    ..and you don't want to go anywhere near that stuff unless you must write win ui software. It's my preferred language, especially now it is getting functional constructs. It's basically a more advanced, concise and flexible version of Java. Only with value types (fast algorithms). As others have said the ecosystem is different, it's better for games (Unity) but horrible for NLP (Lucene.net is a museaum piece and NHibernate isn't great). I write just as much TypeScript/JavaScript nowadays and keep my Java/Python up to date. I really want to add a functional language to replace Python (the 2/3 divide is tiring) but don't have the time (thanks to having two young kids and a wife who also works full time).
  - WorldMaker 10y ago
    The classic .NET framework is available at Reference Source: https://referencesource.microsoft.com/ https://referencesource.microsoft.com/ https://github.com/Microsoft/referencesource https://github.com/Microsoft/referencesource It's under a proper Open Source license now too (the MIT license).
- pjc50 10y ago
  Does that include the winforms stuff (which I believe was always missing from Mono)?
- masklinn 10y ago
  > I was under the impression that .NET is fully open source: https://dotnetfoundation.org/ https://dotnetfoundation.org/ That's not of much worth if the design process remains firmly in corporate hands. Microsoft is currently, slowly, opening the process to the community, but even then I expect corporate will continue driving most of the roadmap and keep veto on everything, very much like Swift — which is much much much further on that track than C# is, Microsoft having only created a C# design/evolutions mailing list and repository literally days ago, the ML was created on January 30th[0] and the repository was created and announced on February 1[1], the "community input" doesn't actually exit yet. [0] https://lists.dot.net/pipermail/csharplang/2017-January/thread.html https://lists.dot.net/pipermail/csharplang/2017-January/thre... [1] https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/dotnet/2017/02/01/the-net-language-strategy/ https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/dotnet/2017/02/01/the-net-l...
  - pionar 10y ago
    Being a little disingenuous there with your first link, only linking to the January archives. The February ones[1] have a lot more activity for only being a couple of days old. [1]https://lists.dot.net/pipermail/csharplang/2017-February/thread.html https://lists.dot.net/pipermail/csharplang/2017-February/thr...
    - masklinn 10y ago
      > Being a little disingenuous there with your first link That link was in support of my claim of the ML having been created on January 30, nothing else. And people posting stuff on a mailing list means nothing if it doesn't actually impact the language, which we can't judge yet because the opening isn't even a week old yet. As for the "lot more activity", it's mostly two blokes (Justin Spindler and Tanner Gooding) posting their old roslyn issues back to the ML. If you're looking for disingenuous may I suggest a mirror?
kristiandupont 10y ago
I was just about to reply to this thread with "Who's bashing C#? It's one of the few things from Microsoft that I've never seen bashed", but I guess you just did. I am not sure if those are your view points or what you observe from others. I don't think they have a lot of merit, but obviously choosing language is a highly opinion-based decision so smells are important if you think they are.
KON_Air 10y ago
It doesn't smell corporate. It is a language for corporates.
- warrenmiller 10y ago
  heard of Unity?
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
pionar 10y ago
C# is _guided_ by Microsoft. You can join in on the language design if you want[1]. The .NET platform is now completely open source[2]. The compiler (Roslyn), tooling (cli), the runtime (coreclr), and the standard library (corefx) are all listed there, all under the Apache 2.0 license. What's not open source? [1] https://github.com/dotnet/csharplang https://github.com/dotnet/csharplang [2] https://github.com/dotnet/ https://github.com/dotnet/
- hvidgaard 10y ago
  Ultimately, Microsoft decides the future of C# and what goes into it. That is the big issue for some people.
  - WorldMaker 10y ago
    Because Python doesn't have a Benevolent Dictator for Life? Or that Oracle is somehow a more benevolent controller of the Java ecosystem than Microsoft could ever control C#/.NET? Or would you prefer committee ownership like JavaScript (EcmaScript)? Maybe something like http://www.ecma-international.org/publications/standards/Ecma-334.htm http://www.ecma-international.org/publications/standards/Ecm...?

hacker_9 10y ago

Actually the main bashing point was C# is Windows only, and of course Windows isn't hipster. Anyway with .Net Core all of that goes away, and for Windows only users (90% of the market) it doesn't make a difference. Also why is it bad the language is developed by a billion dollar company? It means the language tooling is second to none, as well as having fully document libraries which can do everything, and are kept up to date.

adgasf 10y ago

Is that true anymore? I was under the impression that .NET is fully open source: https://dotnetfoundation.org/ https://dotnetfoundation.org/ Besides that though, C# is much nicer than Java and fills a similar niche.

Matthias247 10y ago
That covers the new .NET core parts, not the classic .NET. The classic .NET framework contains lots of components (e.g. WinForms, but also others) which are mainly wrappers around Windows/COM components. Therefore they can't be fully open source. Nevertheless the .NET core and open sourcing effort is great from my POV.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- radicalbyte 10y ago
  ..and you don't want to go anywhere near that stuff unless you must write win ui software. It's my preferred language, especially now it is getting functional constructs. It's basically a more advanced, concise and flexible version of Java. Only with value types (fast algorithms). As others have said the ecosystem is different, it's better for games (Unity) but horrible for NLP (Lucene.net is a museaum piece and NHibernate isn't great). I write just as much TypeScript/JavaScript nowadays and keep my Java/Python up to date. I really want to add a functional language to replace Python (the 2/3 divide is tiring) but don't have the time (thanks to having two young kids and a wife who also works full time).
- WorldMaker 10y ago
  The classic .NET framework is available at Reference Source: https://referencesource.microsoft.com/ https://referencesource.microsoft.com/ https://github.com/Microsoft/referencesource https://github.com/Microsoft/referencesource It's under a proper Open Source license now too (the MIT license).
pjc50 10y ago
Does that include the winforms stuff (which I believe was always missing from Mono)?
masklinn 10y ago
> I was under the impression that .NET is fully open source: https://dotnetfoundation.org/ https://dotnetfoundation.org/ That's not of much worth if the design process remains firmly in corporate hands. Microsoft is currently, slowly, opening the process to the community, but even then I expect corporate will continue driving most of the roadmap and keep veto on everything, very much like Swift — which is much much much further on that track than C# is, Microsoft having only created a C# design/evolutions mailing list and repository literally days ago, the ML was created on January 30th[0] and the repository was created and announced on February 1[1], the "community input" doesn't actually exit yet. [0] https://lists.dot.net/pipermail/csharplang/2017-January/thread.html https://lists.dot.net/pipermail/csharplang/2017-January/thre... [1] https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/dotnet/2017/02/01/the-net-language-strategy/ https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/dotnet/2017/02/01/the-net-l...
- pionar 10y ago
  Being a little disingenuous there with your first link, only linking to the January archives. The February ones[1] have a lot more activity for only being a couple of days old. [1]https://lists.dot.net/pipermail/csharplang/2017-February/thread.html https://lists.dot.net/pipermail/csharplang/2017-February/thr...
  - masklinn 10y ago
    > Being a little disingenuous there with your first link That link was in support of my claim of the ML having been created on January 30, nothing else. And people posting stuff on a mailing list means nothing if it doesn't actually impact the language, which we can't judge yet because the opening isn't even a week old yet. As for the "lot more activity", it's mostly two blokes (Justin Spindler and Tanner Gooding) posting their old roslyn issues back to the ML. If you're looking for disingenuous may I suggest a mirror?

kristiandupont 10y ago

I was just about to reply to this thread with "Who's bashing C#? It's one of the few things from Microsoft that I've never seen bashed", but I guess you just did. I am not sure if those are your view points or what you observe from others. I don't think they have a lot of merit, but obviously choosing language is a highly opinion-based decision so smells are important if you think they are.

KON_Air 10y ago

It doesn't smell corporate. It is a language for corporates.

warrenmiller 10y ago
heard of Unity?
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]

pionar 10y ago

C# is _guided_ by Microsoft. You can join in on the language design if you want[1]. The .NET platform is now completely open source[2]. The compiler (Roslyn), tooling (cli), the runtime (coreclr), and the standard library (corefx) are all listed there, all under the Apache 2.0 license. What's not open source? [1] https://github.com/dotnet/csharplang https://github.com/dotnet/csharplang [2] https://github.com/dotnet/ https://github.com/dotnet/

hvidgaard 10y ago
Ultimately, Microsoft decides the future of C# and what goes into it. That is the big issue for some people.
- WorldMaker 10y ago
  Because Python doesn't have a Benevolent Dictator for Life? Or that Oracle is somehow a more benevolent controller of the Java ecosystem than Microsoft could ever control C#/.NET? Or would you prefer committee ownership like JavaScript (EcmaScript)? Maybe something like http://www.ecma-international.org/publications/standards/Ecma-334.htm http://www.ecma-international.org/publications/standards/Ecm...?