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Mass Effect 1 is one of my favorite game stories; it's like a pretty good light sci-fi novel, which puts it head and shoulders above the vast majority of videog

by TillE 10y ago

Mass Effect 1 is one of my favorite game stories; it's like a pretty good light sci-fi novel, which puts it head and shoulders above the vast majority of videogames. The reveal towards the end is beautifully creepy. Mass Effect 2 forces the player to join a racist terrorist group and does nothing interesting, and then Mass Effect 3 is pure anticlimax. As Franck says, it just seems like they had no idea where to go after the first one.

Fej 10y ago
They knew where to go after the first one. The lead writer got a diminished role in ME2 and was removed for ME3. His original ending was far better than the trash we got.
- ajmurmann 10y ago
  First time I've heard of that. How do you know about his original ending?
  - kirrent 10y ago
    It got leaked at one point. If I remember correctly, the use of biotics and eezo was supposed to be destructive to space/stars/reality in general and continued use would eventually lead to the end of the galaxy and all life whether space-faring or not. The reapers were created to end advanced life, with its dependence on mass effect technology, before the effects were catastrophic in each cycle. The sun with irregular behaviour that Tali was investigating in ME2 was supposed to be showing early symptoms of its eventual destruction from these effects.
    - Null-Set 10y ago
      This sounds very much like the plot of Gurren Lagann.
    - Fej 10y ago
      (Spoilers) The way I remember it - the universe was dying of entropy. The Reapers were created to solve the problem of entropy, but could not do so by the time of the events of Mass Effect. The purpose of the Reapers was to combine the intelligence of each species in order to attempt to solve the problem. Each cycle, species would be harvested to add to the computing power of the Reaper fleet. The final choice of the series was to be: 1. Acquiesce to the demands of the Reapers, and join them in their quest to save the universe; or 2. Do not acquiesce, end the cycle of destruction, and trust that the races of the galaxy will be able to solve the problem. This is an infinitely better ending than what we got. Although...the indoctrination theory would have been breathtaking as well. Too bad BioWare wasn't that clever.
      - antisthenes 10y ago
        What if Shepard just tells Reapers that the phrase is "Let there be light!" ?
    - shepardrtc 10y ago
      That sounds amazing. It would make the Reapers not so evil, and it would give you a difficult - but absolutely necessary and fitting - choice to make. I was a huge fan of ME1, and I even read all the books by Karpyshyn. When I saw that weird sun in ME2, I absolutely knew it had to do with something related to the entire series. But when ME3 came out and I read how much they screwed up the story, I couldn't bring myself to play it. Even ME2 wasn't quite where it should have been. Forcing Karpyshyn out really messed things up. It could have been such a great story.
douche 10y ago
Mass Effect 1 was also more fun to play. The weird retcon to justify introducing boring regular ammo mechanics was dumb. Also, people love to hate on cruising around in the Mako, but I loved it. ME1 was so much more sandboxy than the sequel - I probably played it more to see what kind of crazy jumps I could make, or just how far away I could snipe someone from.
- speeder 10y ago
  In my opinion the only flaw in ME1 was the broken relationship between weapons and classes. I played with engineer class, and it kinda sucked, none of the engineer powers were that useful, and engineers couldn't use any decent weapon, in the end I finished the entire game with the starting pistol (yes, even the final boss I killed with the starting pistol). Oh... and those elevators... but in a way I missed them in ME2 too.
- WillPostForFood 10y ago
  Bioware included a very amusing conversation in Mass Effect 3 with recurring character Conrad Verner where they debate the absurdity of the change of ammo type. I usually don't go for this type of meta humor, but it worked here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEnIQWXCgzQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEnIQWXCgzQ
- ekianjo 10y ago
  > ME1 was so much more sandboxy than the sequel Yeah the sequel was as long, boring corridor with virtually no freedom at all. That's a good example of how games have changed throughout the years.
- sgift 10y ago
  For me it was the exact opposite with ME1 to ME2. Sure, ME1 was more sandboxy, but it was an empty sandbox. 90% of ME1 simply was empty, so all you did was drive around, drive around, drive around and find nothing. ME2 was far more focused with the sandbox parts (planet scanning + finding anomalies) leading at least to something with a certain regularity. Exploring a sandbox is only interesting when it's actually filled with something to find. Still, I think the game play of both ME1 and ME2 (and ME3) actually fit their respective points in the story line. ME1: You don't really know what's going on, you have a vague feeling, but it's mostly "let's stumble around and see what we can find" ME2: Okay, you know what will happen, but almost everyone else is in denial and doesn't want to help you, so you have to be laser-focused to fix the immediate problem with whatever you have at hand. ME3: Denial is over, the problem is squarely in everyone's face and even if some people still want to ignore it your focus is more on showing people that your way to deal with the problem is in their best interest as much as in yours.
zzalpha 10y ago
Eh, I dunno, I've played the whole series twice through and loved it both times. Yes, each game is its own beast, but no one can claim any of them isn't flawed in their own ways. ME1 had mediocre combat and a brutally bad inventory system. Not to mention th elevators. ME2 streamlined a lot of things but the game lost its RPG elements as a consequence. The scanner game was moronic. ME3 struck a slightly better balance but the "side quests" were ridiculous. The real problem is, story wise, the latter two games could never live up to the first. Hell, The Expanse demonstrates that very phenomenon. The first two books are fantastic, but Abaddon's Gate and Cibola Burn are only decent by comparison.
- douche 10y ago
  The Expanse novels have picked up a little with the last two, Nemesis Games and Babylon's Ashes, but it's hard to beat those first two. My favorite of all might be the novella The Churn, which explores the backstory of Amos, the Laconic muscle of the Expanse crew.
  - aaronblohowiak 10y ago
    Did you read the novellas? I've read all the novels but haven't tried the smaller works yet..
a_bonobo 10y ago
What I loved most about Mass Effect was that in its universe, humanity was the new kid on the block, the weirdo completely ignored or mistrusted by all the other species - in the SF I'm used to it's usually mankind who's the savior and the good guy (think Star Trek). io9 has a nice writeup around this: http://io9.gizmodo.com/5886178/why-mass-effect-is-the-most-important-science-fiction-universe-of-our-generation http://io9.gizmodo.com/5886178/why-mass-effect-is-the-most-i...
- ocdtrekkie 10y ago
  In Star Trek, humans are also very much the new kids on the block. When we were first discovering warp drive, the Vulcans were already regular interstellar travelers, and a lot of our technology was thanks to them. From various indications, many of the other races encountered in Star Trek have been spacefaring for a long time, whereas humans are relatively recent upstarts. Arguably in both Star Trek and Mass Effect, humans came from being relative newcomers to becoming legendary leaders and saviors of the universe.
  - flukus 10y ago
    Same with Babylon 5, Robotech and probably most sci fi. Humans being the dominant force just doesn't make for a good story.
jobu 10y ago
> As Franck says, it just seems like they had no idea where to go after the first one. That seems to be the case. Drew Karpyshyn, the lead writer of ME1 and ME2, admitted that his original planned ending wasn't "super fleshed out" http://www.pcgamer.com/mass-effect-3-series-former-lead-writer-reveals-original-ending-ideas/ http://www.pcgamer.com/mass-effect-3-series-former-lead-writ... Karpyshyn left BioWare shortly before the conclusion of Mass Effect 2, with Mac Walters taking over as lead writer for Mass Effect 3. Even so, Karpyshyn defended series' real ending, pointing out that his planned version was just as likely to disappoint.
- WillPostForFood 10y ago
  I read that as suggesting the problem wasn't lack of planning, but the guy with the story vision left the project.
  - jobu 10y ago
    In the glixel article, Ty Franck made this comment: "... because endings are so important – you better know what your ending is and you better be setting that ending up right from the beginning. Otherwise it just feels muddy and unsatisfying." The point I took from both articles was that the Mass Effect series never had a solid vision for the ending (which Karpyshyn admitted), and it showed in the way many (most?) people reacted to ME3.
camus2 10y ago
> a racist terrorist group a racist terrorist group that lets you recruit aliens? that let's you protect human colonies when the council don't bother allocating any resources to their protection? this is about survival, like Shepard says himself.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- WillPostForFood 10y ago
  I dunno, it is portrayed in an unambiguously racist way in the games. Cerberus is a human-survivalist paramilitary group led by the enigmatic Illusive Man. Cerberus' core belief is that humans deserve a greater role in the galactic community, and that the Systems Alliance is too hamstrung by law and public opinion to stand up effectively to the other Citadel races. Cerberus supports the principle that any methods of advancing humanity's ascension are entirely justified, including illegal or dangerous experimentation, terrorist activities, sabotage and assassination. Cerberus operatives accept that these methods are brutal, but believe history will vindicate them. Nevertheless, both the Systems Alliance and the Citadel Council have declared Cerberus to be a terrorist organization and will prosecute identified Cerberus agents accordingly. http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Cerberus http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Cerberus
  - camus2 10y ago
    Then every other alien races are also racist and think first and foremost about the well being of their own race. It's only a problem for the human race apparently.
    - WillPostForFood 10y ago
      I agree, I thought the whole Cerberus thing was really weak.
synicalx 10y ago
Uhhh, I think you might have played a different Mass Effect 2 to everyone else - there aren't any racist terrorist groups in any Mass Effect game, unless you count the Reapers who are kind just genocidal in general. EDIT: Cerberus is xenophobic, not racist. I am fully aware of the existence of Cerberus.
- mejari 10y ago
  Cerberus grew more anti-alien throughout the series.
- jsiepkes 10y ago
  Errrr Cerberus?
  - synicalx 10y ago
    Well Cerberus isn't racist, they're xenophobic. It's like Shepherd joined the Nazi party or something.
    - sgift 10y ago
      More like "used the Nazi partys resources to do what needs to be done while all other people in the galaxy say 'what? There's a problem? Can't see it, can't hear it, go away, you bother me.'" Does it suck that you have to work with Cerberus? Yeah. Does it pose an interesting ethical dilemma? I think so. After all, the question if it's right to use the resources of people you profoundly disagree with (if you do! You can be a mankind-first person in ME after all) if you have to to stop a greater evil is far more interesting than having all the resources you want without any strings attached.
- visakanv 10y ago
  From the Mass Effect Wikia: > Cerberus is a human-survivalist paramilitary group led by the enigmatic Illusive Man. Cerberus' core belief is that humans deserve a greater role in the galactic community, and that the Systems Alliance is too hamstrung by law and public opinion to stand up effectively to the other Citadel races. Cerberus supports the principle that any methods of advancing humanity's ascension are entirely justified, including illegal or dangerous experimentation, terrorist activities, sabotage and assassination. Cerberus operatives accept that these methods are brutal, but believe history will vindicate them. Nevertheless, both the Systems Alliance and the Citadel Council have declared Cerberus to be a terrorist organization and will prosecute identified Cerberus agents accordingly.
edem 10y ago
They are not racist and the only turn xenophobic after ME2. The Illusive Man makes you recruit xenos on ME2!

by TillE 10y ago

Fej 10y ago

They knew where to go after the first one. The lead writer got a diminished role in ME2 and was removed for ME3. His original ending was far better than the trash we got.

ajmurmann 10y ago
First time I've heard of that. How do you know about his original ending?
- kirrent 10y ago
  It got leaked at one point. If I remember correctly, the use of biotics and eezo was supposed to be destructive to space/stars/reality in general and continued use would eventually lead to the end of the galaxy and all life whether space-faring or not. The reapers were created to end advanced life, with its dependence on mass effect technology, before the effects were catastrophic in each cycle. The sun with irregular behaviour that Tali was investigating in ME2 was supposed to be showing early symptoms of its eventual destruction from these effects.
  - Null-Set 10y ago
    This sounds very much like the plot of Gurren Lagann.
  - Fej 10y ago
    (Spoilers) The way I remember it - the universe was dying of entropy. The Reapers were created to solve the problem of entropy, but could not do so by the time of the events of Mass Effect. The purpose of the Reapers was to combine the intelligence of each species in order to attempt to solve the problem. Each cycle, species would be harvested to add to the computing power of the Reaper fleet. The final choice of the series was to be: 1. Acquiesce to the demands of the Reapers, and join them in their quest to save the universe; or 2. Do not acquiesce, end the cycle of destruction, and trust that the races of the galaxy will be able to solve the problem. This is an infinitely better ending than what we got. Although...the indoctrination theory would have been breathtaking as well. Too bad BioWare wasn't that clever.
    - antisthenes 10y ago
      What if Shepard just tells Reapers that the phrase is "Let there be light!" ?
  - shepardrtc 10y ago
    That sounds amazing. It would make the Reapers not so evil, and it would give you a difficult - but absolutely necessary and fitting - choice to make. I was a huge fan of ME1, and I even read all the books by Karpyshyn. When I saw that weird sun in ME2, I absolutely knew it had to do with something related to the entire series. But when ME3 came out and I read how much they screwed up the story, I couldn't bring myself to play it. Even ME2 wasn't quite where it should have been. Forcing Karpyshyn out really messed things up. It could have been such a great story.

douche 10y ago

Mass Effect 1 was also more fun to play. The weird retcon to justify introducing boring regular ammo mechanics was dumb. Also, people love to hate on cruising around in the Mako, but I loved it. ME1 was so much more sandboxy than the sequel - I probably played it more to see what kind of crazy jumps I could make, or just how far away I could snipe someone from.

speeder 10y ago
In my opinion the only flaw in ME1 was the broken relationship between weapons and classes. I played with engineer class, and it kinda sucked, none of the engineer powers were that useful, and engineers couldn't use any decent weapon, in the end I finished the entire game with the starting pistol (yes, even the final boss I killed with the starting pistol). Oh... and those elevators... but in a way I missed them in ME2 too.
WillPostForFood 10y ago
Bioware included a very amusing conversation in Mass Effect 3 with recurring character Conrad Verner where they debate the absurdity of the change of ammo type. I usually don't go for this type of meta humor, but it worked here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEnIQWXCgzQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEnIQWXCgzQ
ekianjo 10y ago
> ME1 was so much more sandboxy than the sequel Yeah the sequel was as long, boring corridor with virtually no freedom at all. That's a good example of how games have changed throughout the years.
sgift 10y ago
For me it was the exact opposite with ME1 to ME2. Sure, ME1 was more sandboxy, but it was an empty sandbox. 90% of ME1 simply was empty, so all you did was drive around, drive around, drive around and find nothing. ME2 was far more focused with the sandbox parts (planet scanning + finding anomalies) leading at least to something with a certain regularity. Exploring a sandbox is only interesting when it's actually filled with something to find. Still, I think the game play of both ME1 and ME2 (and ME3) actually fit their respective points in the story line. ME1: You don't really know what's going on, you have a vague feeling, but it's mostly "let's stumble around and see what we can find" ME2: Okay, you know what will happen, but almost everyone else is in denial and doesn't want to help you, so you have to be laser-focused to fix the immediate problem with whatever you have at hand. ME3: Denial is over, the problem is squarely in everyone's face and even if some people still want to ignore it your focus is more on showing people that your way to deal with the problem is in their best interest as much as in yours.

zzalpha 10y ago

Eh, I dunno, I've played the whole series twice through and loved it both times. Yes, each game is its own beast, but no one can claim any of them isn't flawed in their own ways. ME1 had mediocre combat and a brutally bad inventory system. Not to mention th elevators. ME2 streamlined a lot of things but the game lost its RPG elements as a consequence. The scanner game was moronic. ME3 struck a slightly better balance but the "side quests" were ridiculous. The real problem is, story wise, the latter two games could never live up to the first. Hell, The Expanse demonstrates that very phenomenon. The first two books are fantastic, but Abaddon's Gate and Cibola Burn are only decent by comparison.

douche 10y ago
The Expanse novels have picked up a little with the last two, Nemesis Games and Babylon's Ashes, but it's hard to beat those first two. My favorite of all might be the novella The Churn, which explores the backstory of Amos, the Laconic muscle of the Expanse crew.
- aaronblohowiak 10y ago
  Did you read the novellas? I've read all the novels but haven't tried the smaller works yet..

a_bonobo 10y ago

What I loved most about Mass Effect was that in its universe, humanity was the new kid on the block, the weirdo completely ignored or mistrusted by all the other species - in the SF I'm used to it's usually mankind who's the savior and the good guy (think Star Trek). io9 has a nice writeup around this: http://io9.gizmodo.com/5886178/why-mass-effect-is-the-most-important-science-fiction-universe-of-our-generation http://io9.gizmodo.com/5886178/why-mass-effect-is-the-most-i...

ocdtrekkie 10y ago
In Star Trek, humans are also very much the new kids on the block. When we were first discovering warp drive, the Vulcans were already regular interstellar travelers, and a lot of our technology was thanks to them. From various indications, many of the other races encountered in Star Trek have been spacefaring for a long time, whereas humans are relatively recent upstarts. Arguably in both Star Trek and Mass Effect, humans came from being relative newcomers to becoming legendary leaders and saviors of the universe.
- flukus 10y ago
  Same with Babylon 5, Robotech and probably most sci fi. Humans being the dominant force just doesn't make for a good story.

jobu 10y ago

> As Franck says, it just seems like they had no idea where to go after the first one. That seems to be the case. Drew Karpyshyn, the lead writer of ME1 and ME2, admitted that his original planned ending wasn't "super fleshed out" http://www.pcgamer.com/mass-effect-3-series-former-lead-writer-reveals-original-ending-ideas/ http://www.pcgamer.com/mass-effect-3-series-former-lead-writ... Karpyshyn left BioWare shortly before the conclusion of Mass Effect 2, with Mac Walters taking over as lead writer for Mass Effect 3. Even so, Karpyshyn defended series' real ending, pointing out that his planned version was just as likely to disappoint.

WillPostForFood 10y ago
I read that as suggesting the problem wasn't lack of planning, but the guy with the story vision left the project.
- jobu 10y ago
  In the glixel article, Ty Franck made this comment: "... because endings are so important – you better know what your ending is and you better be setting that ending up right from the beginning. Otherwise it just feels muddy and unsatisfying." The point I took from both articles was that the Mass Effect series never had a solid vision for the ending (which Karpyshyn admitted), and it showed in the way many (most?) people reacted to ME3.

camus2 10y ago

> a racist terrorist group a racist terrorist group that lets you recruit aliens? that let's you protect human colonies when the council don't bother allocating any resources to their protection? this is about survival, like Shepard says himself.

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
WillPostForFood 10y ago
I dunno, it is portrayed in an unambiguously racist way in the games. Cerberus is a human-survivalist paramilitary group led by the enigmatic Illusive Man. Cerberus' core belief is that humans deserve a greater role in the galactic community, and that the Systems Alliance is too hamstrung by law and public opinion to stand up effectively to the other Citadel races. Cerberus supports the principle that any methods of advancing humanity's ascension are entirely justified, including illegal or dangerous experimentation, terrorist activities, sabotage and assassination. Cerberus operatives accept that these methods are brutal, but believe history will vindicate them. Nevertheless, both the Systems Alliance and the Citadel Council have declared Cerberus to be a terrorist organization and will prosecute identified Cerberus agents accordingly. http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Cerberus http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Cerberus
- camus2 10y ago
  Then every other alien races are also racist and think first and foremost about the well being of their own race. It's only a problem for the human race apparently.
  - WillPostForFood 10y ago
    I agree, I thought the whole Cerberus thing was really weak.

synicalx 10y ago

Uhhh, I think you might have played a different Mass Effect 2 to everyone else - there aren't any racist terrorist groups in any Mass Effect game, unless you count the Reapers who are kind just genocidal in general. EDIT: Cerberus is xenophobic, not racist. I am fully aware of the existence of Cerberus.

mejari 10y ago
Cerberus grew more anti-alien throughout the series.
jsiepkes 10y ago
Errrr Cerberus?
- synicalx 10y ago
  Well Cerberus isn't racist, they're xenophobic. It's like Shepherd joined the Nazi party or something.
  - sgift 10y ago
    More like "used the Nazi partys resources to do what needs to be done while all other people in the galaxy say 'what? There's a problem? Can't see it, can't hear it, go away, you bother me.'" Does it suck that you have to work with Cerberus? Yeah. Does it pose an interesting ethical dilemma? I think so. After all, the question if it's right to use the resources of people you profoundly disagree with (if you do! You can be a mankind-first person in ME after all) if you have to to stop a greater evil is far more interesting than having all the resources you want without any strings attached.
visakanv 10y ago
From the Mass Effect Wikia: > Cerberus is a human-survivalist paramilitary group led by the enigmatic Illusive Man. Cerberus' core belief is that humans deserve a greater role in the galactic community, and that the Systems Alliance is too hamstrung by law and public opinion to stand up effectively to the other Citadel races. Cerberus supports the principle that any methods of advancing humanity's ascension are entirely justified, including illegal or dangerous experimentation, terrorist activities, sabotage and assassination. Cerberus operatives accept that these methods are brutal, but believe history will vindicate them. Nevertheless, both the Systems Alliance and the Citadel Council have declared Cerberus to be a terrorist organization and will prosecute identified Cerberus agents accordingly.

edem 10y ago

They are not racist and the only turn xenophobic after ME2. The Illusive Man makes you recruit xenos on ME2!