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Steps to writing an annoying article: 1. Deny you're calling your husband childish while comparing him to a child. 2. Proclaim that you're impervious to abuse b

Steps to writing an annoying article: 1. Deny you're calling your husband childish while comparing him to a child. 2. Proclaim that you're impervious to abuse by touting your toughness as if those in abusive relationships are not physically tough enough. 3. Highlight your suffering martyrdom as much as possible while claiming that you refuse to suffer.

pyre 16y ago
> 1. Deny you're calling your husband childish while comparing him to a child. She was using that as a metaphor. Using an image with which everyone (or at least most people) can identify. Being angry/upset with yourself (or just your situation) and taking it out on others is not something that is restricted to childhood. The metaphor works better in terms of describing the method of dealing with it (i.e. ignoring it, and not allowing the other person to drag you into what is their personal problem). > 2. Proclaim that you're impervious to abuse by touting your toughness as if those in abusive relationships are not physically tough enough. When people speak of physical abuse, the usual retort is that one is 'tough enough' to defend his or herself, even if the reality is that people in abusive situations are really emotionally weak/co-dependent. Most people that are trying to 'prove' to others that they are impervious to abuse are usually trying to display something that can be seen/evaluated by others so as to be interpreted as 'proof.' They are not usually thinking about the flip-side (the implication that people that do 'allow' themselves to be abused are lacking these traits). > 3. Highlight your suffering martyrdom as much as possible while claiming that you refuse to suffer. This was the only part that I found mildly annoying. She repeats "I will not suffer," while talking about the ways in which she was suffering, but trying to get on with her life. It may be a good internal motto to use in such times, but in reality she was suffering.
- Tichy 16y ago
  Ah, it was just a metaphor. That makes it alright then. Also, from the follow-up article: "I am a 40-year-old trying to be a 20-year-old, and I realise my career is done with and I have to find something else" - not sure if that is really a victory to be proud of?
  - abstractbill 16y ago
    Also, from the follow-up article: "I am a 40-year-old trying to be a 20-year-old, and I realise my career is done with and I have to find something else" - not sure if that is really a victory to be proud of? I took it as quite a positive statement. Realizing that a 40 year old probably shouldn't continuously be trying to act like a 20 year old is generally a good thing, and so is waking up to the idea that you can shift from one career to another (I'm assuming that's what he meant by "my career is done with and I have to find something else").
  - pyre 16y ago
    > Ah, it was just a metaphor. That makes it alright then. When we use car analogies to describe tech issues, does that mean we are calling those issues cars? You can try to read into the subtext of why she used that metaphor all you want, but you can't say with 100% certainty why it was chosen, other than to illustrate the point. > "I am a 40-year-old trying to be a 20-year-old, and I realise my career is done with and I have to find something else" - not sure if that is really a victory to be proud of? How so? I think that the 'victory' here is not of her over her husband, but of her over herself. The 'easy answer' to the problem would have been to kick her husband to the curb for being an ass (and basically abandoning his family to have his mid-life crisis). She stuck with it believing that he would sort out his issues in his own time. Sticking to her guns while feeling abandoned by her husband is the real 'victory' here. As far as him coming home with his tail between his legs? He spent the entire summer basically trying to come to grip with reality. It was really his attachment to the past (and to wanting things to 'stay the same') that caused his 'defeat.' He was battling himself and his own misconceptions about how his life was going to be.
abstractbill 16y ago
I think you've missed a great deal of the point of the article. Read the followup too (see tokenadult's comment). This is one of those rare cases where "passive aggression" (stonewalling) is actually the most effective thing to do. If your partner claims to be unhappy with your relationship, but you're really sure they're actually miserable with some other aspect of their life, then this seems like a workable strategy. I think you got confused because another instance where stonewalling is an effective strategy happens to be dealing with childrens' tantrums.
- georgieporgie 16y ago
  > If your partner claims to be unhappy with your relationship, but you're really sure they're actually miserable with some other aspect of their life, then this seems like a workable strategy. Wouldn't it be a lot quicker, more respectful, and less hurtful to simply express this to your partner? Maybe encourage him/her to attend some counseling before committing to a decision?
frossie 16y ago
I don't think she is comparing him to a child. I think she is saying that sometimes people behave badly because they lack the ability to understand and/or express what is really bothering them. A toddler having a tantrum is the canonical example of this, and has the advantage of having a large body of literature that explains how to deal with it, but if you think about it for more than a minute there are legions of adult examples. I did find the litany of toughness a bit grating, but clearly it is something that she needed to convince herself of, never mind other people. I think the article has some value as a parable, almost, that shows the value in not taking things personally.
chc 16y ago
Almost everything gets compared to cars, but I don't think most people are actually accusing those things of being car-like. I have never understood exactly what causes it, but some people very often read far too much into comparisons. The two things being compared don't have to be alike except in the particular respects that are being compared. It's unfortunate, because comparisons are really useful for illustrating ideas to pattern-matching machines like our minds, but people like this make comparisons almost useless because they always lash out at anybody who makes one.
- jerf 16y ago
  It's a highly pervasive cognitive bias: http://lesswrong.com/lw/vx/failure_by_analogy/ http://lesswrong.com/lw/vx/failure_by_analogy/ Granted, that link is not directly about this issue but a moment's thought shows it trivially extends to the ever-present "argument by analogy" on the Internet. (At this point, I all but flip the idiot bit on someone if they post an argument containing an analogy. Using it for a description is logically defensible but usually very dangerous. I've been trying to eliminate them from my writing and thought.)
shadowsun7 16y ago
On the contrary, I found the author to be remarkably mature. Not many people would have had the patience, much less the world-wisdom, to recognize what her husband was going through and let him get through with it ... on his own. In one sense, this woman has an extreme faith in her husband. How many people would be able to believe that he would eventually find his own way out of the rut? Such trust, such maturity. Amazing.

pyre 16y ago

> 1. Deny you're calling your husband childish while comparing him to a child. She was using that as a metaphor. Using an image with which everyone (or at least most people) can identify. Being angry/upset with yourself (or just your situation) and taking it out on others is not something that is restricted to childhood. The metaphor works better in terms of describing the method of dealing with it (i.e. ignoring it, and not allowing the other person to drag you into what is their personal problem). > 2. Proclaim that you're impervious to abuse by touting your toughness as if those in abusive relationships are not physically tough enough. When people speak of physical abuse, the usual retort is that one is 'tough enough' to defend his or herself, even if the reality is that people in abusive situations are really emotionally weak/co-dependent. Most people that are trying to 'prove' to others that they are impervious to abuse are usually trying to display something that can be seen/evaluated by others so as to be interpreted as 'proof.' They are not usually thinking about the flip-side (the implication that people that do 'allow' themselves to be abused are lacking these traits). > 3. Highlight your suffering martyrdom as much as possible while claiming that you refuse to suffer. This was the only part that I found mildly annoying. She repeats "I will not suffer," while talking about the ways in which she was suffering, but trying to get on with her life. It may be a good internal motto to use in such times, but in reality she was suffering.

Tichy 16y ago
Ah, it was just a metaphor. That makes it alright then. Also, from the follow-up article: "I am a 40-year-old trying to be a 20-year-old, and I realise my career is done with and I have to find something else" - not sure if that is really a victory to be proud of?
- abstractbill 16y ago
  Also, from the follow-up article: "I am a 40-year-old trying to be a 20-year-old, and I realise my career is done with and I have to find something else" - not sure if that is really a victory to be proud of? I took it as quite a positive statement. Realizing that a 40 year old probably shouldn't continuously be trying to act like a 20 year old is generally a good thing, and so is waking up to the idea that you can shift from one career to another (I'm assuming that's what he meant by "my career is done with and I have to find something else").
- pyre 16y ago
  > Ah, it was just a metaphor. That makes it alright then. When we use car analogies to describe tech issues, does that mean we are calling those issues cars? You can try to read into the subtext of why she used that metaphor all you want, but you can't say with 100% certainty why it was chosen, other than to illustrate the point. > "I am a 40-year-old trying to be a 20-year-old, and I realise my career is done with and I have to find something else" - not sure if that is really a victory to be proud of? How so? I think that the 'victory' here is not of her over her husband, but of her over herself. The 'easy answer' to the problem would have been to kick her husband to the curb for being an ass (and basically abandoning his family to have his mid-life crisis). She stuck with it believing that he would sort out his issues in his own time. Sticking to her guns while feeling abandoned by her husband is the real 'victory' here. As far as him coming home with his tail between his legs? He spent the entire summer basically trying to come to grip with reality. It was really his attachment to the past (and to wanting things to 'stay the same') that caused his 'defeat.' He was battling himself and his own misconceptions about how his life was going to be.

abstractbill 16y ago

I think you've missed a great deal of the point of the article. Read the followup too (see tokenadult's comment). This is one of those rare cases where "passive aggression" (stonewalling) is actually the most effective thing to do. If your partner claims to be unhappy with your relationship, but you're really sure they're actually miserable with some other aspect of their life, then this seems like a workable strategy. I think you got confused because another instance where stonewalling is an effective strategy happens to be dealing with childrens' tantrums.

georgieporgie 16y ago
> If your partner claims to be unhappy with your relationship, but you're really sure they're actually miserable with some other aspect of their life, then this seems like a workable strategy. Wouldn't it be a lot quicker, more respectful, and less hurtful to simply express this to your partner? Maybe encourage him/her to attend some counseling before committing to a decision?

frossie 16y ago

I don't think she is comparing him to a child. I think she is saying that sometimes people behave badly because they lack the ability to understand and/or express what is really bothering them. A toddler having a tantrum is the canonical example of this, and has the advantage of having a large body of literature that explains how to deal with it, but if you think about it for more than a minute there are legions of adult examples. I did find the litany of toughness a bit grating, but clearly it is something that she needed to convince herself of, never mind other people. I think the article has some value as a parable, almost, that shows the value in not taking things personally.

chc 16y ago

Almost everything gets compared to cars, but I don't think most people are actually accusing those things of being car-like. I have never understood exactly what causes it, but some people very often read far too much into comparisons. The two things being compared don't have to be alike except in the particular respects that are being compared. It's unfortunate, because comparisons are really useful for illustrating ideas to pattern-matching machines like our minds, but people like this make comparisons almost useless because they always lash out at anybody who makes one.

jerf 16y ago
It's a highly pervasive cognitive bias: http://lesswrong.com/lw/vx/failure_by_analogy/ http://lesswrong.com/lw/vx/failure_by_analogy/ Granted, that link is not directly about this issue but a moment's thought shows it trivially extends to the ever-present "argument by analogy" on the Internet. (At this point, I all but flip the idiot bit on someone if they post an argument containing an analogy. Using it for a description is logically defensible but usually very dangerous. I've been trying to eliminate them from my writing and thought.)

shadowsun7 16y ago

On the contrary, I found the author to be remarkably mature. Not many people would have had the patience, much less the world-wisdom, to recognize what her husband was going through and let him get through with it ... on his own. In one sense, this woman has an extreme faith in her husband. How many people would be able to believe that he would eventually find his own way out of the rut? Such trust, such maturity. Amazing.