5 ms·

Ethics: a company goes back on its promise to pay interview travel expenses?

13 points by Amanjeev 16y ago

This is just an honest question. Please advice. I had an interview with a company in Herndon VA. Its a software company and I was being interviewed for an open position there. I live in Manchester, NH. I was told that they will reimburse up to $750 of the travel expenses. I was given only 1 day notice to be at the interview. I understand that I could have negotiated the interview date, but thinking that: 1. They are paying up to $750, I might be able to make it. 2. The program manager apparently had only that time slot available in the entire week (who apparently did not show up). So, I said I will be there. I had cleared three phone interviews so far. This was supposed to be the final in-person interview. Unfortunately, I was not selected even though I do feel my interview had gone well. So, in such a short notice, I booked a flight and a car and the cost came out to be around $700. I submitted my expense report and receipts later and was told to wait till the payroll runs. I followed up after a month and they said they cannot process it because it is too much of an amount. I sent the finance personnel the email sent by HR that they have up to $750 for me. Then he called me and started to haggle/bargain this price with me. I do not have a job at present and I hope people here at HN know what is it to be jobless and still take out close to 1000 bucks.<p>It has been 2 months now and despite my several emails, they do not even reply. What are the ethics here? I have original receipts and I have their emails. What should I do? Am I right in asking them that reimbursement as they had promised?

jacquesm 16y ago
Mail them that if they don't re-imburse you promptly that you will name them publicly ? They can't really fire you and they won't be hiring you. I don't expect they'll be suing you (but that's always a chance). If I were them I'd pony up. If you have it in writing get a (friendly, so it won't cost you more $) lawyer to write them a nastygram first ?
- Amanjeev 16y ago
  I have their HR's email stating that they have reserved $750 for me from corporate so that I can be reimbursed. I just am not sure if this is my right. I mean, they did promise me and I have their email stating that but isn't it their discretion?
  - gaius 16y ago
    IANAL, but I'd say that constitutes a contract. There was a consideration, after all. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consideration http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consideration
    - Amanjeev 16y ago
      Good source. Thanks a lot.
      - cperciva 16y ago
        Even if there's no contract per se, this looks to me like a textbook case of promissory estoppel.
  - jacquesm 16y ago
    As far as I can see it is a 'contract', they said if you do 'x' they'll re-imburse you, you did 'x', they should pay up. It's definitely not at their discretion to haggle or refuse after the fact. Until you ordered that ticket they could have backed out. I'm really surprised they would do this, no reputable firm would mess up like this. Also makes me wonder if you're the first.
    - Amanjeev 16y ago
      I have been told that they hire people they know but this charade has been going on to show the upper management that they are 'fair'.
      - jacquesm 16y ago
        Ok, so go nail them. If you need help putting together a pointed letter that does not limit your options you're free to run it by me (email in profile) I probably won't make it worse :), but it might be smarter to ask a local lawyer.
        16y ago
arethuza 16y ago
Be very pleased that you didn't get a job there - if they treat job applicants like this they will probably treat their employees just as badly.
- Amanjeev 16y ago
  I totally agree. Perhaps, it is a boon in disguise.
  - andyjdavis 16y ago
    -Well, that represents quite a boon. -Oh, an enormous boon. -Well, we're always on the lookout for enormous boons. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nTmSu6v0LA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nTmSu6v0LA
mattm 16y ago
Perhaps they didn't hire you because they are having money troubles? It sounds like that could be a problem with them. People will generally do something if it becomes more of a problem for them NOT to do it. You said it's been 2 months and you've ONLY sent "several emails." You need to set aside 15 minutes per day and call them every single day until you have your money. You need to become a big pain in their ass so much that they know that at 11am they are going to receive a call from you asking where your re-imbursement is. Don't email because they can easily be deleted. You need to phone and be polite but firm. You are definitely right here to get this money.
- ilkhd2 16y ago
  I think that a nice lawsuit can help with multiplying the money they owe.
  - Amanjeev 16y ago
    :) I am not rich enough to file a lawsuit. At least, I do not know how that works.
    - hga 16y ago
      I know in theory how it works (lived in Arlington, VA for a dozen years) and you aren't in a position to do it. If you lived in the area and had plenty of time it would be another matter, but you don't (VA has something akin to small claims court, with damages capped at $10K).
- bonsaitree 16y ago
  FWIW, that sort of phone behavior can be construed as "harassment". Additionally, VA is a "one-party" wiretap state so the company could very easily record the content and frequency of these phone calls and have your number blocked, and/or file a criminal complaint against you. You are correct in that emails can be deleted, logs altered, and records "misplaced". A single written demand letter (sent registered return receipt) by USPS is all the "notification" necessary.
deleted 16y ago
[deleted]
staunch 16y ago
You are absolutely right in forcefully requesting the refund. They're jerks for making you ask twice. Absolutely do not threaten them in anyway. Do out them in public if they don't make it right.
coryl 16y ago
Wow, ask them to pay you what you're owed and what they promised, absolutely and finally. If they still beat around the bush, remind them about the reputation of their company and how you feel that the public disclosure of the way they treated you would not benefit their recruitment.
JeffL 16y ago
Isn't this a good case for small claims court?
bonsaitree 16y ago
The ethics are clearly in your favor, but it's highly unlikely that formal legal actions will result in any net dollar gains on your part. I'll explain. Assuming you've completely exhausted casual diplomatic channels, I would firstly send out a formal "letter of demand" (registered return receipt) which includes an itemized list of your expenses, copies of your receipts, the relevant correspondence, and "pay-by" date (usually 30 calendar days from post-mark). Think of it as if you're formally presenting your case to a judge, but that judge is pre-disposed to rule against you. Be thorough. Legally, assuming you have documentation to back-up their $750 budget, their request for your physical presence, and your $700 of expenses, it looks like a clear case of "breach of contract". The only flimsy legal leg the company might have to stand on is if the particular HR representative didn't have "agency" to represent the company in your travel reimbursement negotiations (highly unlikely since it seems as if you've already spoken directly with someone who's post-facto implied such an agency by haggling). I live in Northern Virginia just south of Herndon. FWIW, IANAL, but as a business owner, home owner, and investor, I have more than a passing personal expertise in VA commercial contract law at both the small-claims and general district court level. If, after the formal demand letter, they don't pay-up and you still wish to pursue formal channels, the amount falls under small-claims statutes. Technically, you'll be filing for a "warrant in debt" [PDF] http://tinyurl.com/2fk54ce http://tinyurl.com/2fk54ce rather than "breach of contract". This is both good and bad. It's good since the current general case docket in VA right now is about 10 months. It's bad in that, as a person, you MUST represent yourself in small claims court in VA. Only a company has the "luxury" of formal in-court legal counsel under small claims in VA. At the minimum, you're going to incur a risk that your additional filing and travel expenses to/from the hearing itself may not be included in the final judgment (most of the time they aren't). Nevertheless, you'll want to include them for possible liens, etc. Much like taxes, don't be afraid to itemize. Since it seems that some time has past already, don't forget to include interest. If the company is not properly registered in VA (check here https://sccefile.scc.virginia.gov/ https://sccefile.scc.virginia.gov/ ) you'll have to file suits against its owners. One other "gotcha" that particularly litigious companies will often try to do is opt for a formal transfer of your case to the normal civil docket. If they're already paying retainers for legal representation, it costs them essentially nothing to try. Amortize these formal efforts over time. I suspect that your individual attention is worth far more than the resulting hourly rate.

chollida1 16y ago

> As far as I can see it is a 'contract', they said if you do 'x' they'll re-imburse you, you did 'x', they should pay up. I'm not a lawyer, though I do think you are right in this instance. One thing to keep in mind though is that if an employee does not have the authorization to make such an agreement then the company isn't liable. I forget the legal term for this type of person, agent comes to mind.

jacquesm 16y ago
> One thing to keep in mind though is that if an employee does not have the authorization to make such an agreement then the company isn't liable. I don't think that it is that simple. If a worker for the city cleaning department comes up to you and offers to sell you a small building the city owns then yes, the city is not bound because you can assume that he has no such authorization. But if the mayor of the town would make you an offer to buy a small building the city owns (in writing) then you'd definitely have a case of sorts, even if it turned out afterwards that he did not have the authority. It's all about the expectations of authority on the part of the recipient, if those expectations are in line with the function of the other party. And in this case it is perfectly ok to assume that if an HR person from a company offers to re-imburse you for your costs if you make the trip that they will actually do so.
- andyjdavis 16y ago
  as always, Im not a lawyer. It may vary where you are but in Australia if its reasonable for you to believe the employee has the authority to make such an agreement then its binding (everything else being equal). The employee's actual authority isn't relevant. Otherwise people saying "oh, they didn't have the authority" becomes an instant way to wriggle out of any deal after the fact and contracts everywhere become worthless. Side note: this is one of the big reasons why big companies are so strict in their rules about low ranking employees speaking to anyone within their premises or while wearing anything identifying you as employee. It suggests you are an agent of the company and thus speak for the company. When I worked in a large supermarket chain many years ago all staff but store management were absolutely forbidden from speaking to anyone about pretty much anything because we were agents of the company and thus could be presumed to be speaking for the company.