4 ms·

Oh I'm sorry, I didn't realize everything not agreeing with your opinion was alt right

toomuchtodo 10y ago
I am trying suuuuuuper hard to give The Donald a chance as a far left progressive, but when you fill the swamp instead of draining it (appointments), lie directly to your country (Alternate Facts), and institute executive orders that violate the spirit of your country's foundation while being illegal (restricting the return of legal residents to US soil), you have quickly burned up whatever legitimacy folks were willing to extend you. Facts are not negotiable, any more than gravity is. At least try to govern like world leader.
- TenOhms 10y ago
  Once again, "alternate facts" wasn't meant as the boogeyman you were told it was. They were alternate (as in, the other side of the story) that the MSM wasn't telling you. I know this has been detonated in the comedysphere but they only mocked their own ignorance.
  - toomuchtodo 10y ago
    > They were alternate (as in, the other side of the story) that the MSM wasn't telling you. This is called an opinion. Supply photo 1. Supply photo 2. Compare. Result = fact. You also didn't address the issues that are far worse: prohibiting legal residents from returning to US soil, and filling cabinet appointments with people who want to dismantle the very institutions they are charged with leading. I really, really want to meet in the middle with the right. Otherwise, we're going to just have to have a concerted effort to drive them into the ocean.
    - User23 10y ago
      "which has resulted in at least 1 death" this is not true.
      - toomuchtodo 10y ago
        You're correct. I was wrong, and I have retracted that part of my comment. http://time.com/4656182/trump-muslim-ban-woman-died-green-card-immigration/ http://time.com/4656182/trump-muslim-ban-woman-died-green-ca...
  - Delmania 10y ago
    What other side exactly? This started because the Sean Spicer claimed the president had the largest inauguration attendance ever. This was proven false by multiple sources. There is no such thing as an alternate fact. It's either an exaggeration or a lie.
a_j_c 10y ago
It's how they operate unfortunately...Disagree with a Dem apologist and be prepared to be called a "racist," "fascist," "sexist," or "alt right." It's their way of avoiding critical thought...So much easier to just label your opponent something intolerable and move on. It's crazy because I'm more "left" on most issues than my Dem apologist friends and I'm the one who gets castigated.
- breatheoften 10y ago
  Look at how receptive you are being to other ideas. Trolls like you are actually the cause for the new level of lows currently dominating the public discourse. The poster listed a set of true facts detailing the problems they are encountering on a search for finding an accord with the "opposite side". You reply to nothing that was said and instead lump the poster into a category of people that use language completely different from the language used by the poster. Based on your words, I don't think you are even responding to this thread. Did you reply with a copy-paste template that you insert into political charged discussion across the web?
- sctb 10y ago
  Please don't post uncivilly like this, and keep in mind that Hacker News is not for political warfare and we ban accounts that abuse it like that. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
User23 10y ago
None of us have very good insight into the administration's actions. We do know that the most provocative thing it has done so far was also called for by Bill Clinton and Barrack Obama. If you suddenly feel it's a huge deal now but you didn't then, it's probably because effective persuasion techniques have altered your world-view. Personally I hate having my reality manipulated like that and I go full contrarian, but everyone has to make their own decision about the reality tunnel they want to inhabit. PG's essay http://paulgraham.com/submarine.html http://paulgraham.com/submarine.html is a good eye opener. From there, read Robert Cialdini's books. While persuasion works on everyone, even if they know the techniques and even if they know they are being applied, being aware that it's being done is still better than not. The most effective (while assuredly strictly incorrect) approach I know of is to assume that everything you hear is true. All of it, good, bad, indifferent, from all sides. And then weight all of that in the context of your own values and make the decision you think is right. While this requires holding contradictory beliefs, that's clearly something we as humans are more than capable of so why not use it?
- dragonwriter 10y ago
  > We do know that the most provocative thing it has done so far was also called for by Bill Clinton and Barrack Obama. No, it wasn't. And I'm not even sure which of the many provocative things he's done you think is the most provocative, but it's not true of any of them, so...
  - User23 10y ago
    This kind of cognitive dissonance is a reliable indicator that persuasion techniques have been applied. Interestingly, presenting contrary facts is well-established to have virtually no persuasive power. If you really want to expand your mind try the technique in the post you're replying to. If you're comfortable inhabiting a reality where a crazy oompa loompa is going to drop nukes any day now, carry on then.

I am trying suuuuuuper hard to give The Donald a chance as a far left progressive, but when you fill the swamp instead of draining it (appointments), lie directly to your country (Alternate Facts), and institute executive orders that violate the spirit of your country's foundation while being illegal (restricting the return of legal residents to US soil), you have quickly burned up whatever legitimacy folks were willing to extend you. Facts are not negotiable, any more than gravity is. At least try to govern like world leader.

TenOhms 10y ago
Once again, "alternate facts" wasn't meant as the boogeyman you were told it was. They were alternate (as in, the other side of the story) that the MSM wasn't telling you. I know this has been detonated in the comedysphere but they only mocked their own ignorance.
- toomuchtodo 10y ago
  > They were alternate (as in, the other side of the story) that the MSM wasn't telling you. This is called an opinion. Supply photo 1. Supply photo 2. Compare. Result = fact. You also didn't address the issues that are far worse: prohibiting legal residents from returning to US soil, and filling cabinet appointments with people who want to dismantle the very institutions they are charged with leading. I really, really want to meet in the middle with the right. Otherwise, we're going to just have to have a concerted effort to drive them into the ocean.
  - User23 10y ago
    "which has resulted in at least 1 death" this is not true.
    - toomuchtodo 10y ago
      You're correct. I was wrong, and I have retracted that part of my comment. http://time.com/4656182/trump-muslim-ban-woman-died-green-card-immigration/ http://time.com/4656182/trump-muslim-ban-woman-died-green-ca...
- Delmania 10y ago
  What other side exactly? This started because the Sean Spicer claimed the president had the largest inauguration attendance ever. This was proven false by multiple sources. There is no such thing as an alternate fact. It's either an exaggeration or a lie.

a_j_c 10y ago

It's how they operate unfortunately...Disagree with a Dem apologist and be prepared to be called a "racist," "fascist," "sexist," or "alt right." It's their way of avoiding critical thought...So much easier to just label your opponent something intolerable and move on. It's crazy because I'm more "left" on most issues than my Dem apologist friends and I'm the one who gets castigated.

breatheoften 10y ago
Look at how receptive you are being to other ideas. Trolls like you are actually the cause for the new level of lows currently dominating the public discourse. The poster listed a set of true facts detailing the problems they are encountering on a search for finding an accord with the "opposite side". You reply to nothing that was said and instead lump the poster into a category of people that use language completely different from the language used by the poster. Based on your words, I don't think you are even responding to this thread. Did you reply with a copy-paste template that you insert into political charged discussion across the web?
sctb 10y ago
Please don't post uncivilly like this, and keep in mind that Hacker News is not for political warfare and we ban accounts that abuse it like that. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

User23 10y ago

None of us have very good insight into the administration's actions. We do know that the most provocative thing it has done so far was also called for by Bill Clinton and Barrack Obama. If you suddenly feel it's a huge deal now but you didn't then, it's probably because effective persuasion techniques have altered your world-view. Personally I hate having my reality manipulated like that and I go full contrarian, but everyone has to make their own decision about the reality tunnel they want to inhabit. PG's essay http://paulgraham.com/submarine.html http://paulgraham.com/submarine.html is a good eye opener. From there, read Robert Cialdini's books. While persuasion works on everyone, even if they know the techniques and even if they know they are being applied, being aware that it's being done is still better than not. The most effective (while assuredly strictly incorrect) approach I know of is to assume that everything you hear is true. All of it, good, bad, indifferent, from all sides. And then weight all of that in the context of your own values and make the decision you think is right. While this requires holding contradictory beliefs, that's clearly something we as humans are more than capable of so why not use it?

dragonwriter 10y ago
> We do know that the most provocative thing it has done so far was also called for by Bill Clinton and Barrack Obama. No, it wasn't. And I'm not even sure which of the many provocative things he's done you think is the most provocative, but it's not true of any of them, so...
- User23 10y ago
  This kind of cognitive dissonance is a reliable indicator that persuasion techniques have been applied. Interestingly, presenting contrary facts is well-established to have virtually no persuasive power. If you really want to expand your mind try the technique in the post you're replying to. If you're comfortable inhabiting a reality where a crazy oompa loompa is going to drop nukes any day now, carry on then.