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The problem with this theory, is that it completely ignores that a lot of people good at math have poor people skills. And you need people to be happy and impro

The problem with this theory, is that it completely ignores that a lot of people good at math have poor people skills. And you need people to be happy and improve your life opportunities. So yeah, math is beautiful, and if you like it, go for it. But if you look for a skill to acquire or practice, your taste no withstanding, this may not be the best investment. Sport, social skills, languages, time management, self introspection and cooking are examples of things that usually pay off better than math in your life. It brings more people, opportunities, health, money, etc. Again, not saying math is not a good thing to practice. We need math as a specie. And an individual may need it for his or her happiness. But as a strategy I don't think so.

ekm2 10y ago
>a lot of people good at math have poor people skills All the more reason to open the floodgates so we can get the few people with both skillsets.
- sametmax 10y ago
  You won't achieve that by encouraging people at doing math, it's not attractive enough. Just like it's hard to sell vegetable to somebody eating chocolate. And I LOOOOVE vegetables. You can, however, achieve this by encouraging nerds to get people skills. Double benefit : - they will have an easier life - nerds will be less stigmatized, linked topics will so be more appealing and math more successful I agree though that putting more kids in contact with math sooner will help a lot. A lot of kids like maths if it's shown to them with passion before they are exposed to the social stereotype or nerdiness.
RandomInteger4 10y ago
Maybe people good at math are actually great at people skills and you're just repeating a bias spread by a banality driven media.
- ianai 10y ago
  In my experience, people are all equally bad at math. There are just people who have spent longer with the problem(s)/domain(s) and have developed a skill set around it. They start from the same beginnings, though. If you take them out of their usual 'watering hole' they go straight back to beginner status (and of course the degree of it varies by how far it is from their usual routine).
  - sametmax 10y ago
    Yes, but some personality traits will make you more apt and willing to keep working on it. There is a limit in the skills you can acquire. If you spend time and energy on flirting, learning to dress up, building social network, you will have less time to learn maths. Because of course you'll have sport, music, games, books, movies, family and other study topics taking time as well. Now maths incline kids, given the choice, will usually choose working on math than going to 10 groups of people to chit chat about superficial topics just to stay in the network. Nothing wrong about it, just an observation.
- gowld 10y ago
  Or maybe sametmax has met dozens of mathematicians and made an informed summary.
  - sametmax 10y ago
    To be fair, I had a strange life. I changed school 11 times, and rebuilt my social circle every time. My father also worked for an airline company, so I traveled the world most of my life. Because I was a geek, I was mostly surrounded by geeks. It gave me a huge and diverse sample to observe. Granted, it's not something you can consider scientific, since I'm the common ground and so the bias in all those observations.
- sametmax 10y ago
  See my other comment where I explain in details what I mean. I met some people that are both good at maths and with people skills. They are, however, adults. They started as nerds, and worked their people skills on the way up. But starting with both, I never met one.
ianai 10y ago
You could likely be linking an association with a trend. Maybe society treats people who have the personality requisite to study mathematics poorly. Thus, over time, both the individual and society 'negatively associate'. That was my experience, anyway, and I know it has been a historical trend. Some of the best mathematicians were bullied by their cultures, isolated, and thus had plenty of time to work on mathematics.
- tinalumfoil 10y ago
  I don't think the suggestion of a "personality requisite to study math" supports the articles thesis.
  - ianai 10y ago
    in today's culture
    - sametmax 10y ago
      While it's true the current culture is particularly hostile to math incline people, I must also say that, by nature, people good at solving problem with perfect solutions are not good at integrating in an imperfect society. They bear part of the responsibility.
      - ianai 10y ago
        An individual is but one individual. Societies ills should not be dismissed nor diminished because of an individual or even group. Society affects everyone in vastly larger ways. I'm thinking of it as similar to a companies products. A company will refund you if you bring them evidence that they sold you a defective product or service (in a good state of the world). That individual bad product hurts their bottom line, but typically in a small enough way to be mostly ignorable. Now when the company has to issue a multimillion dollar recall some internal process or procedure to the company needs to change. The general operating parameters of the company affect its overall "health" much more than a one off "bad product". In this analogy, societies are the company and it's individuals are the products.

ekm2 10y ago

>a lot of people good at math have poor people skills All the more reason to open the floodgates so we can get the few people with both skillsets.

sametmax 10y ago
You won't achieve that by encouraging people at doing math, it's not attractive enough. Just like it's hard to sell vegetable to somebody eating chocolate. And I LOOOOVE vegetables. You can, however, achieve this by encouraging nerds to get people skills. Double benefit : - they will have an easier life - nerds will be less stigmatized, linked topics will so be more appealing and math more successful I agree though that putting more kids in contact with math sooner will help a lot. A lot of kids like maths if it's shown to them with passion before they are exposed to the social stereotype or nerdiness.

RandomInteger4 10y ago

Maybe people good at math are actually great at people skills and you're just repeating a bias spread by a banality driven media.

ianai 10y ago
In my experience, people are all equally bad at math. There are just people who have spent longer with the problem(s)/domain(s) and have developed a skill set around it. They start from the same beginnings, though. If you take them out of their usual 'watering hole' they go straight back to beginner status (and of course the degree of it varies by how far it is from their usual routine).
- sametmax 10y ago
  Yes, but some personality traits will make you more apt and willing to keep working on it. There is a limit in the skills you can acquire. If you spend time and energy on flirting, learning to dress up, building social network, you will have less time to learn maths. Because of course you'll have sport, music, games, books, movies, family and other study topics taking time as well. Now maths incline kids, given the choice, will usually choose working on math than going to 10 groups of people to chit chat about superficial topics just to stay in the network. Nothing wrong about it, just an observation.
gowld 10y ago
Or maybe sametmax has met dozens of mathematicians and made an informed summary.
- sametmax 10y ago
  To be fair, I had a strange life. I changed school 11 times, and rebuilt my social circle every time. My father also worked for an airline company, so I traveled the world most of my life. Because I was a geek, I was mostly surrounded by geeks. It gave me a huge and diverse sample to observe. Granted, it's not something you can consider scientific, since I'm the common ground and so the bias in all those observations.
sametmax 10y ago
See my other comment where I explain in details what I mean. I met some people that are both good at maths and with people skills. They are, however, adults. They started as nerds, and worked their people skills on the way up. But starting with both, I never met one.

ianai 10y ago

You could likely be linking an association with a trend. Maybe society treats people who have the personality requisite to study mathematics poorly. Thus, over time, both the individual and society 'negatively associate'. That was my experience, anyway, and I know it has been a historical trend. Some of the best mathematicians were bullied by their cultures, isolated, and thus had plenty of time to work on mathematics.

tinalumfoil 10y ago
I don't think the suggestion of a "personality requisite to study math" supports the articles thesis.
- ianai 10y ago
  in today's culture
  - sametmax 10y ago
    While it's true the current culture is particularly hostile to math incline people, I must also say that, by nature, people good at solving problem with perfect solutions are not good at integrating in an imperfect society. They bear part of the responsibility.
    - ianai 10y ago
      An individual is but one individual. Societies ills should not be dismissed nor diminished because of an individual or even group. Society affects everyone in vastly larger ways. I'm thinking of it as similar to a companies products. A company will refund you if you bring them evidence that they sold you a defective product or service (in a good state of the world). That individual bad product hurts their bottom line, but typically in a small enough way to be mostly ignorable. Now when the company has to issue a multimillion dollar recall some internal process or procedure to the company needs to change. The general operating parameters of the company affect its overall "health" much more than a one off "bad product". In this analogy, societies are the company and it's individuals are the products.