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> You're being intentionally obtuse Side note, but every time I see someone online accusing someone else of being "intentionally obtuse" I stop reading immedia

> You're being intentionally obtuse Side note, but every time I see someone online accusing someone else of being "intentionally obtuse" I stop reading immediately. You know nothing of the intentions of a stranger who's obviously willing to openly discuss an issue with you.

mywittyname 10y ago
I see where you're coming from, but I also think it's okay to infer people's intent from their statements. In this instance, I feel like the "effects of immigration on the US economy" and "the impact of European migration on Native Americans" are so loosely related that dragging a discussion of one to the other really has to be intentional. Though, I agree obtuse is probably a poor choice of wording, perhaps I should have said persnickety.
- ghurtado 10y ago
  > perhaps I should have said persnickety. Or maybe just debate in a way such that the strength of your argument is not dependent on your choice of insult?
Chris2048 10y ago
> I stop reading immediately Intention can be inferred; when the stranger is being intentionally obtuse, they aren't being "open".
- ghurtado 10y ago
  Let me clarify: when I see "you're being intentionally obtuse", I read "you are not just stupid, you're stupid on purpose". Because that's exactly what it is: a next level insult disguised under slightly fancier words. *Obtuse - Synonyms: stupid, slow-witted, slow, dull-witted, unintelligent, ignorant, simpleminded, witless; Needless to say, I have no patience for those kinds of insults. > Intention can be inferred Sure. And when you're talking to strangers, your inferences of intention will be wrong more often than not. "You're intentionally avoiding my question" - objective statement, not an insult and can be discussed further. "You're intentionally being a dumbass" - subjective statement, an insult and a non-sequitur Hopefully you can see the difference.
  - Chris2048 10y ago
    > I read "you are not just stupid, you're stupid on purpose" I think that's right, but without using the insult "stupid", it says the same thing. But an insult has no content, where as this does i.e "you are misunderstanding on purpose" A constructive criticism can be 'insulting', but this isn't the same as a pure insult. > "You're intentionally avoiding my question" - objective statement, not an insult and can be discussed further. Is this not the same as "you're being intentionally obtuse"? > "You're intentionally being a dumbass" - subjective statement, an insult and a non-sequitur Because it uses the word "dumbass", which is an insulting label rather than a description of behaviour. But " intentionally obtuse" is a description of behaviour also, and is also as objective as "avoiding my question" in context. It's only a non-sequitur if you misunderstand what it means in context. I think "you're being intentionally obtuse" would be fairly clear in context?
    - ghurtado 10y ago
      None of what you've said would make any sense for anyone who agrees with the list of synonyms for "Obtuse" which I posted in my previous comment. Those synonyms are from a dictionary, and they are all insults. So I have to conclude that either: - You have a radically different definition of "obtuse" which you somehow consider a non-insult and which is non-standard usage - You're intentionally beating around the bush in order to avoid admitting to understand the difference between an insult and a constructive criticism :) These are just my two hypothesis, but if you have others, I'd love to hear them.
      - Chris2048 10y ago
        The meaning of a word comes from context, with a thesaurus you are meant to pick the correct word based on intended or derived meaning. The "synonyms" are not synonymous with all interpretations of a word. You can agree on a list of possible synonyms without fixing the definition. The definition: 1. annoyingly insensitive or slow to understand. "he wondered if the doctor was being deliberately obtuse" > So I have to conclude.. hypothesis three: your argument wrt synonyms is incorrect. People may dislike being called "obtuse" but it is not, by standard, an insult.

mywittyname 10y ago

I see where you're coming from, but I also think it's okay to infer people's intent from their statements. In this instance, I feel like the "effects of immigration on the US economy" and "the impact of European migration on Native Americans" are so loosely related that dragging a discussion of one to the other really has to be intentional. Though, I agree obtuse is probably a poor choice of wording, perhaps I should have said persnickety.

ghurtado 10y ago
> perhaps I should have said persnickety. Or maybe just debate in a way such that the strength of your argument is not dependent on your choice of insult?

Chris2048 10y ago

> I stop reading immediately Intention can be inferred; when the stranger is being intentionally obtuse, they aren't being "open".

ghurtado 10y ago
Let me clarify: when I see "you're being intentionally obtuse", I read "you are not just stupid, you're stupid on purpose". Because that's exactly what it is: a next level insult disguised under slightly fancier words. *Obtuse - Synonyms: stupid, slow-witted, slow, dull-witted, unintelligent, ignorant, simpleminded, witless; Needless to say, I have no patience for those kinds of insults. > Intention can be inferred Sure. And when you're talking to strangers, your inferences of intention will be wrong more often than not. "You're intentionally avoiding my question" - objective statement, not an insult and can be discussed further. "You're intentionally being a dumbass" - subjective statement, an insult and a non-sequitur Hopefully you can see the difference.
- Chris2048 10y ago
  > I read "you are not just stupid, you're stupid on purpose" I think that's right, but without using the insult "stupid", it says the same thing. But an insult has no content, where as this does i.e "you are misunderstanding on purpose" A constructive criticism can be 'insulting', but this isn't the same as a pure insult. > "You're intentionally avoiding my question" - objective statement, not an insult and can be discussed further. Is this not the same as "you're being intentionally obtuse"? > "You're intentionally being a dumbass" - subjective statement, an insult and a non-sequitur Because it uses the word "dumbass", which is an insulting label rather than a description of behaviour. But " intentionally obtuse" is a description of behaviour also, and is also as objective as "avoiding my question" in context. It's only a non-sequitur if you misunderstand what it means in context. I think "you're being intentionally obtuse" would be fairly clear in context?
  - ghurtado 10y ago
    None of what you've said would make any sense for anyone who agrees with the list of synonyms for "Obtuse" which I posted in my previous comment. Those synonyms are from a dictionary, and they are all insults. So I have to conclude that either: - You have a radically different definition of "obtuse" which you somehow consider a non-insult and which is non-standard usage - You're intentionally beating around the bush in order to avoid admitting to understand the difference between an insult and a constructive criticism :) These are just my two hypothesis, but if you have others, I'd love to hear them.
    - Chris2048 10y ago
      The meaning of a word comes from context, with a thesaurus you are meant to pick the correct word based on intended or derived meaning. The "synonyms" are not synonymous with all interpretations of a word. You can agree on a list of possible synonyms without fixing the definition. The definition: 1. annoyingly insensitive or slow to understand. "he wondered if the doctor was being deliberately obtuse" > So I have to conclude.. hypothesis three: your argument wrt synonyms is incorrect. People may dislike being called "obtuse" but it is not, by standard, an insult.