6 ms·

> I would get one from local market for that amount of money. Wait, why? Are you implying foreign workers are not competent and can't be exceptional? Surely i

by rdtsc 10y ago

> I would get one from local market for that amount of money. Wait, why? Are you implying foreign workers are not competent and can't be exceptional? Surely it isn't that? Otherwise, sounds like then H1B will finally work as intended, you'd be able higher exceptional people from overseas who might not be available in your area? Maybe there is a distributed systems expert from Argentina or a compiler writer from Ghana. For you to reach out to another country, they'll obviously be very qualifies and demand a decent salary. > Plus, what international student will do once he completes the college, and with quarter of million in debts (say Bachelor only) ? Go home or get a $130k salary if he is qualified. International student acceptance doesn't somehow guarantee or imply a continuation of stay based on employment. There is (or was) an work program where they can work in the industry as co-op / intern for a year or two. That can probably be expanded. > Will you hire college fresh grad for 130K ? Don't think so. Yes I would! There can be exceptional graduates. I have seen and interviewed some. Google / Facebook / Microsoft already pays that much for good graduate and more. > This is USA, this IS a country made, constructed and developed by excellence and hard work of immigrants with their hopes and dreams. So if they do such good work we should reward them appropriately by paying them a competitive salary. H1B should not be a way to bring in cheap labor. You can argue there should be other visas for that but H1B shouldn't be that one. And somehow you are tying it to hopes and dream. What about the hopes and dreams of develops working in US? > There is no a notion of "nation" in USA, there is no such thing. That is completely bogus. There is a strong notion of a nation here precisely because there is ethnic, religious or other history. If anything Americans are criticized for over-emphasizing their "Americanism". > It's just a colony of immigrants moved away from their homes to build something they could not there. This is a dream land, this is an opportunity land and should remain such for everyone. Well if this is a dream surely we don't want ruin that dream for those who are here and suppress their wages.

pm90 10y ago
Really? From your handle, I did think you were among the more nuanced members in this forum. I guess this issue cuts too close to your heart though. > Yes I would! There can be exceptional graduates. I have seen and interviewed some. Google / Facebook / Microsoft already pays that much for good graduate and more Yes, and they are the exception not the rule. American tech sector is not just limited to these companies. And not just to the bay area where such salaries are common. > So if they do such good work we should reward them appropriately by paying them a competitive salary. H1B should not be a way to bring in cheap labor. 60k is NOT CHEAP LABOR in most parts of the country! Please consider that outside of major cities, it is a pretty decent salary, especially a great starting salary. > That is completely bogus. There is a strong notion of a nation here precisely because there is ethnic, religious or other history. If anything Americans are criticized for over-emphasizing their "Americanism". I think the OP mean more along the line of patrimony and culture that is common in the Old World. While Americans might beat their chest and proclaim their uniqueness, they have existed as nation for just over 300 years, while the culture of Europe and much of Asia goes back thousands of years. > Well if this is a dream surely we don't want ruin that dream for those who are here and suppress their wages. Precisely. So don't.
- unprepare 10y ago
  >especially a great starting salary. This is exactly why people are railing against H1Bs so hard. How can you even suggest that an h1b be used for an entry level job? meanwhile record numbers of american college graduates are finding part time work at mcdonalds and starbucks. Sure wish some of my friends and former classmates could get 60k/yr jobs, instead of 24 hrs/wk @ 8.25 an hour. But no, its because tech companies are literally unable to fill these positions! i swear!
  - pm90 10y ago
    > This is exactly why people are railing against H1Bs so hard. How can you even suggest that an h1b be used for an entry level job? Because all your friends and former classmates can't code even if their life depended on it. I went to school in one of the best CS programs in the country. Believe me: there are all kinds of outreach programs, high school outreach programs etc. to get more Americans involved in Tech. And while there are more Americans in Tech, the demand far outstrips supply.
    - unprepare 10y ago
      > Because all your friends and former classmates can't code even if their life depended on it. I'm just gonna end it here, im not interested in having a discussion with you. Have a good one, hope your mood improves to the point where you aren't calling random strangers friends and family incompetent!
      - pm90 10y ago
        Usually I don't give comments like yours the dignity of a reply but it seems like even the best of people in this forum have latched on to certain incorrect ideas, so I'm gonna try one more time. I wasn't saying your friends and family are incompetent, I was saying they are incompetent programmers, at least right now. I don't believe that everyone can or wants to do software engineering for a living, just like not everyone can or wants to be a chef, or a pilot. Its really important to understand that we can't retrain everyone to fulfill certain roles.

by rdtsc 10y ago

pm90 10y ago

Really? From your handle, I did think you were among the more nuanced members in this forum. I guess this issue cuts too close to your heart though. > Yes I would! There can be exceptional graduates. I have seen and interviewed some. Google / Facebook / Microsoft already pays that much for good graduate and more Yes, and they are the exception not the rule. American tech sector is not just limited to these companies. And not just to the bay area where such salaries are common. > So if they do such good work we should reward them appropriately by paying them a competitive salary. H1B should not be a way to bring in cheap labor. 60k is NOT CHEAP LABOR in most parts of the country! Please consider that outside of major cities, it is a pretty decent salary, especially a great starting salary. > That is completely bogus. There is a strong notion of a nation here precisely because there is ethnic, religious or other history. If anything Americans are criticized for over-emphasizing their "Americanism". I think the OP mean more along the line of patrimony and culture that is common in the Old World. While Americans might beat their chest and proclaim their uniqueness, they have existed as nation for just over 300 years, while the culture of Europe and much of Asia goes back thousands of years. > Well if this is a dream surely we don't want ruin that dream for those who are here and suppress their wages. Precisely. So don't.

unprepare 10y ago
>especially a great starting salary. This is exactly why people are railing against H1Bs so hard. How can you even suggest that an h1b be used for an entry level job? meanwhile record numbers of american college graduates are finding part time work at mcdonalds and starbucks. Sure wish some of my friends and former classmates could get 60k/yr jobs, instead of 24 hrs/wk @ 8.25 an hour. But no, its because tech companies are literally unable to fill these positions! i swear!
- pm90 10y ago
  > This is exactly why people are railing against H1Bs so hard. How can you even suggest that an h1b be used for an entry level job? Because all your friends and former classmates can't code even if their life depended on it. I went to school in one of the best CS programs in the country. Believe me: there are all kinds of outreach programs, high school outreach programs etc. to get more Americans involved in Tech. And while there are more Americans in Tech, the demand far outstrips supply.
  - unprepare 10y ago
    > Because all your friends and former classmates can't code even if their life depended on it. I'm just gonna end it here, im not interested in having a discussion with you. Have a good one, hope your mood improves to the point where you aren't calling random strangers friends and family incompetent!
    - pm90 10y ago
      Usually I don't give comments like yours the dignity of a reply but it seems like even the best of people in this forum have latched on to certain incorrect ideas, so I'm gonna try one more time. I wasn't saying your friends and family are incompetent, I was saying they are incompetent programmers, at least right now. I don't believe that everyone can or wants to do software engineering for a living, just like not everyone can or wants to be a chef, or a pilot. Its really important to understand that we can't retrain everyone to fulfill certain roles.