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Slashdot Book Reviews: Programming Clojure

29 points by apgwoz 16y ago

deleted 16y ago
[deleted]
- runevault 16y ago
  I've always found /. to be one of the biggest mixed bags online. The good comments are pure gold, but everything else tends to be terrible.
- hga 16y ago
  With less than 3 dozen comments made as of yet it's a little early to judge this; I normally wait 24 hours and then view those scored 3 or better.
johnswamps 16y ago
Does anyone know how it compares to The Joy of Clojure (I realize it's not done yet)?
- runevault 16y ago
  They aim to fill two entirely different purposes. JoC is for deeper understanding, Programming Clojure is for breadth and basic understanding to get you going in the first place. They, or maybe (depending on how it turns out) Clojure in Action are companion pieces to each other. On it's own JoC would be a decent book, but it really feels like one to take you the next steps AFTER you already have a foundation in the language from which to build.
- vyksyt 16y ago
  (I'm on the Manning Early Access programs for the new Clj books, so been reading through the chapters as they come up) Programming Clojure is an introductory book that provides an overview of the language and its functional heritage/constructs. I'd say its the "First" Clojure book. JoC is the next step - it does offer a good look into Clojure, but from Ch 7, aims to go deeper into higher level constructs - macros, protocols, reify et al as well as concurrency. There's a lot of new 1.2 stuff that wasn't developen when PC came out. The third book, Clojure in Action, is going to be excellent insight into the very practical, deployment, editing and interfacing aspects of the language. (Things like DSLs, web services, et al).
pella 16y ago
original website: http://www.pragprog.com/titles/shcloj/programming-clojure http://www.pragprog.com/titles/shcloj/programming-clojure excerpt: http://media.pragprog.com/titles/shcloj/concurrency.pdf http://media.pragprog.com/titles/shcloj/concurrency.pdf http://media.pragprog.com/titles/shcloj/flow.pdf http://media.pragprog.com/titles/shcloj/flow.pdf source code: http://www.pragprog.com/titles/shcloj/source_code http://www.pragprog.com/titles/shcloj/source_code
tzs 16y ago
Anyone else dislike the use of 'recur' to indicate iteration?
- jrockway 16y ago
  Anyone else dislike the color #ff0f93 more than #ff0e95?
  - tzs 16y ago
    How is that comparable? The word 'recur' suggests recursion, so using it to mean you do NOT want recursion seems to be kind of odd. Does it make sense to you?
    - lmkg 16y ago
      The 'recur' operator was meant as a replacement for the lack of tail-recursive optimization in the JVM, and is often seen as a recursion operator, not an iteration operator, especially by people coming from a functional background. People from an imperative background seem to understand it as a type of limited GOTO, with only a single place it can go to; people from a functional background see it as similar to calling the function you're in by name, but mentioning the recursion explicitly for compiler optimizations. Recur seems to be maligned by people on both sides of the recursion/iteration divide. I rather like it, in no small part because I think the divide is silly. Iteration is the same as recursion, both semantically (especially if you have tail-call optimization) and syntactically (especially if you can have multiple loop variables). Recur blurs the distinction. If you think the distinction is important, it's confounding; if you think the distinction is silly, it's unifying.
    - apgwoz 16y ago
      recursion is the same as iteration in a tail-call optimized environment. Granted, the JVM isn't tail-call optimized, but whatever.
- baddox 16y ago
  That seems like common usage. It's used prominently in either SICP or The Little Schemer (I think the latter).
AndrejM 16y ago
Gah! I wish I could have the mental capacity to learn all of this stuff at once. I'm busy with Python, C, tons of code that I want to explore, plus I'm interested in D (waiting anxiously for the DPL book). And then there's all that talk about Haskell and Clojure which really sparks my interest. I fear if I try to read too much, my head will explode (or worse, I'll simply forget what I've learnt).
- DenisM 16y ago
  I fear if I try to read too much, my head will explode That's how you know you're learning - your brain rebuilds itself around new concepts. If you push it hard enough you will start hearing a hum in your ears after few hours of continuous learning.
- hello_moto 16y ago
  Life is about making choices and perhaps knowing your limitations as a human being. You can either be someone who knew various programming languages and wrote a few small single-purposed libraries (and jump the wagon to another new languages) or knew two or three programming languages and build something big. It's a choice. Ask yourself if you are truly interested at these languages or is it because of the HN side-effect (hang out with a crowd with certain belief, you'll become them or want to become them).
  - AndrejM 16y ago
    Well popularity is not really the reason I'm interested in these languages. The practical guy in me tells me to stick with the languages that I know, and expand my knowledge in that domain. But then there's that other side of me that's really interested in everything. These days I'm leaning towards being more practical, but I was always interested in just about everything (be it programming, music, 3D/art, or even various sports). And you're absolutely right about making decisions, they have to be made. Anyway, I don't want to steal the topic, but thanks for the handy reminder. :)
    - GeneralMaximus 16y ago

29 points by apgwoz 16y ago

deleted 16y ago

[deleted]

runevault 16y ago
I've always found /. to be one of the biggest mixed bags online. The good comments are pure gold, but everything else tends to be terrible.
hga 16y ago
With less than 3 dozen comments made as of yet it's a little early to judge this; I normally wait 24 hours and then view those scored 3 or better.

johnswamps 16y ago

Does anyone know how it compares to The Joy of Clojure (I realize it's not done yet)?

runevault 16y ago
They aim to fill two entirely different purposes. JoC is for deeper understanding, Programming Clojure is for breadth and basic understanding to get you going in the first place. They, or maybe (depending on how it turns out) Clojure in Action are companion pieces to each other. On it's own JoC would be a decent book, but it really feels like one to take you the next steps AFTER you already have a foundation in the language from which to build.
vyksyt 16y ago
(I'm on the Manning Early Access programs for the new Clj books, so been reading through the chapters as they come up) Programming Clojure is an introductory book that provides an overview of the language and its functional heritage/constructs. I'd say its the "First" Clojure book. JoC is the next step - it does offer a good look into Clojure, but from Ch 7, aims to go deeper into higher level constructs - macros, protocols, reify et al as well as concurrency. There's a lot of new 1.2 stuff that wasn't developen when PC came out. The third book, Clojure in Action, is going to be excellent insight into the very practical, deployment, editing and interfacing aspects of the language. (Things like DSLs, web services, et al).

pella 16y ago

original website: http://www.pragprog.com/titles/shcloj/programming-clojure http://www.pragprog.com/titles/shcloj/programming-clojure excerpt: http://media.pragprog.com/titles/shcloj/concurrency.pdf http://media.pragprog.com/titles/shcloj/concurrency.pdf http://media.pragprog.com/titles/shcloj/flow.pdf http://media.pragprog.com/titles/shcloj/flow.pdf source code: http://www.pragprog.com/titles/shcloj/source_code http://www.pragprog.com/titles/shcloj/source_code

tzs 16y ago

Anyone else dislike the use of 'recur' to indicate iteration?

jrockway 16y ago
Anyone else dislike the color #ff0f93 more than #ff0e95?
- tzs 16y ago
  How is that comparable? The word 'recur' suggests recursion, so using it to mean you do NOT want recursion seems to be kind of odd. Does it make sense to you?
  - lmkg 16y ago
    The 'recur' operator was meant as a replacement for the lack of tail-recursive optimization in the JVM, and is often seen as a recursion operator, not an iteration operator, especially by people coming from a functional background. People from an imperative background seem to understand it as a type of limited GOTO, with only a single place it can go to; people from a functional background see it as similar to calling the function you're in by name, but mentioning the recursion explicitly for compiler optimizations. Recur seems to be maligned by people on both sides of the recursion/iteration divide. I rather like it, in no small part because I think the divide is silly. Iteration is the same as recursion, both semantically (especially if you have tail-call optimization) and syntactically (especially if you can have multiple loop variables). Recur blurs the distinction. If you think the distinction is important, it's confounding; if you think the distinction is silly, it's unifying.
  - apgwoz 16y ago
    recursion is the same as iteration in a tail-call optimized environment. Granted, the JVM isn't tail-call optimized, but whatever.
baddox 16y ago
That seems like common usage. It's used prominently in either SICP or The Little Schemer (I think the latter).

AndrejM 16y ago

Gah! I wish I could have the mental capacity to learn all of this stuff at once. I'm busy with Python, C, tons of code that I want to explore, plus I'm interested in D (waiting anxiously for the DPL book). And then there's all that talk about Haskell and Clojure which really sparks my interest. I fear if I try to read too much, my head will explode (or worse, I'll simply forget what I've learnt).

DenisM 16y ago
I fear if I try to read too much, my head will explode That's how you know you're learning - your brain rebuilds itself around new concepts. If you push it hard enough you will start hearing a hum in your ears after few hours of continuous learning.
hello_moto 16y ago
Life is about making choices and perhaps knowing your limitations as a human being. You can either be someone who knew various programming languages and wrote a few small single-purposed libraries (and jump the wagon to another new languages) or knew two or three programming languages and build something big. It's a choice. Ask yourself if you are truly interested at these languages or is it because of the HN side-effect (hang out with a crowd with certain belief, you'll become them or want to become them).
- AndrejM 16y ago
  Well popularity is not really the reason I'm interested in these languages. The practical guy in me tells me to stick with the languages that I know, and expand my knowledge in that domain. But then there's that other side of me that's really interested in everything. These days I'm leaning towards being more practical, but I was always interested in just about everything (be it programming, music, 3D/art, or even various sports). And you're absolutely right about making decisions, they have to be made. Anyway, I don't want to steal the topic, but thanks for the handy reminder. :)
  - GeneralMaximus 16y ago