9 ms·

I think it's $130K, which is 2x as much as before. It's senior level salary in IT (and I think for lawyers and MD's it's not starting salary either), in some ca

by cortuso 10y ago

I think it's $130K, which is 2x as much as before. It's senior level salary in IT (and I think for lawyers and MD's it's not starting salary either), in some cases/states Principal level. I would not invite H1B on that position, I would get one from local market for that amount of money. If you follow the line: it simply says do not use H1B more. Plus, what international student will do once he completes the college, and with quarter of million in debts (say Bachelor only) ? As is now, H1B. Will you hire college fresh grad for 130K ? Don't think so. So...who will come to the college from overseas to study and brig their passion and ideas on this land ? This is USA, this IS a country made, constructed and developed by excellence and hard work of immigrants with their hopes and dreams. Cutting that idea off, putting the country and society in the mood of "preservation", could result in dangerous outcome, as society is not ready for that. This is not Europe and will never be, the rules that work there are not applicable on this land. There is no a notion of "nation" in USA, there is no such thing. It's just a colony of immigrants moved away from their homes to build something they could not there. This is a dream land, this is an opportunity land and should remain such for everyone.

cpursley 10y ago
> I would not invite H1B on that position, I would get one from local market for that amount of money Are you suggesting that a $130k floor for H1B workers would undermine the practice of undercutting local workers?
- cortuso 10y ago
  It's hard to predict what will really happen. Some businesses will hire more IT personal overseas, to amortize the costs and avoid H1B application at all. Some will start really searching for a local talent with higher price (that's what this idea is meant to do I guess). But considering that IT reports constantly shortage on candidates, a big gap indeed, regardless top notch universities, makes me think it's not about problem of lack of open positions, what this new idea aims to solve, it's about a will to do that job or not. Still, I'm talking about IT sector. In other areas of life things may be way different.
  - unprepare 10y ago
    anytime you hear "shortage of candidates" you need to append "at the wage we are offering" at 1 million per year, do you think there would still be a shortage? how about 500k? Salaries are so bad in IT compared to development that I decided a couple months ago to start making the transition. I cant reasonably continue pursuing a career trajectory that i know will make me less money, and that is not valued by organizations. add to this the demands for IT jobs: certifications (costs hundreds of dollars per, need to refresh them every year or two) experience with laundry lists of technologies (i.e cisco networking experience is apparently not valid if this employer uses juniper/pfsense/etc.) probably the worst hours in the industry (yes devs get pagerduty, its not comparable) compare that to: literally no certification requirements (dont even need a high school diploma for many places) much better hours add to that substantially better pay, and its a real wonder why there is a 'shortage of candidates'
  - Roboprog 10y ago
    Possibly they might look at hiring outside of the Bay Area in such exotic locations as Boise, DesMoines, Minneapolis, Detroit or other places where they have recent college graduates who would have been motivated to study STEM fields.
    - cpursley 10y ago
      There's places outside of the Bay Area? Blasphemy!
      - Roboprog 10y ago
        Yeah, you're right. We're all a bunch of stupid-heads in Sacramento, good for nothing but doing CRUD in COBOL++ (aka Java) :-)
jordanb 10y ago
> I would not invite H1B on that position, I would get one from local market for that amount of money. So you're saying the incentives would work as intended..
- cortuso 10y ago
  Again, my understanding of IT market, is that shortage of candidates Silicon Valley, and not only, so complains about, is because there are NO local candidates willing to take that job, and not because "all those indians steal our young grads jobs". If by saying "So you're saying the incentives would work as intended" you mean minimum salary wage will raise because of that, don't think so.
  - unprepare 10y ago
    > NO local candidates willing to take that job >not because "all those indians steal our young grads jobs" Yet we have record numbers of college graduates working at starbucks and other hourly employers. Do you honestly believe that college graduates would rather work at starbucks or mcdonalds than a tech company doing IT?
    - jamesmp98 10y ago
      Well now that C.S. is "hip" it's a pain to land a junior job. I'm no graduate, but I am a self taught (albeit) hobbyist developer doing it for a few years now working as a part time stocker for $8.00/h because junior jobs A) Don't exist. or B) Have stupid requirements.
    - cortuso 10y ago
      In our company we have struggle to get applicants to apply. Junior, or Senior. May be it's our company, but in general I would agree that H1B should be meant for experienced personal. What is happening now, companies are getting qualified labor (years of experience, Masters/Phds) from overseas for $60K. Nice and shiny. My point is that this, most likely, will not open more entry level positions, or make companies willing to pay more for entry level engineer.
devmunchies 10y ago
> There is no a notion of "nation" in USA, there is no such thing Yeah ok, buddy. Try that line when you don't wanna pay taxes.
- msabalau 10y ago
  The term "nation" typically means a collection of people with a common culture and ethnicity. The "Poles" are a nation, Poland is a state. That's why the the term nation-state exists, and contrasts with, say, empires composed of multiple nations. Canada, for example, traditionally described as a binational state, is now typically identified as a multicultural state, with some Québécois disliking the change in emphasis. Americans as a people are united in sloppily mishandling the term "nation", mostly because it doesn't really apply to us.
  - devmunchies 10y ago
    America absolutely has a culture. Have you never lived in another country? Our houses, cars, schools, music, food, pass times, athletics, language (slang, dialects), entertainment, government, habits, communication (verbal, body language), aspirations, societal expectations, humor, things we find offensive/inoffensive, etc.
    - msabalau 10y ago
      Britain has a culture, despite being composed of the English, Scots, and Welsh nations as well as many immigrants. One can, of course, feel entirely free to use words in arbitrary ways. But to correct someone (who clearly understands the correct usage of the term nation) with the nonsensical notion of a nation imposing taxes is odd.
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
  - ygaf 10y ago
    I'll admit to learning from your definition of nation just now. Sucks that I went well into adulthood never learning the proper meaning of a basic word. On the bright side, google has just given me the green light to continue using 'country' and state interchangeably. Americans sloppily mishandle a lot of things. That's a common culture right off the bat ;) in addition to everything devmunchies said.
refurb 10y ago
I think it's $130K, which is 2x as much as before. I think you need to get out of the Valley. It's come up on HN before how $125K+ salaries might be common in SV, but not in other areas of the US. Make the salary floor $130K and only SV will get to hire H1-Bs.
- gnopgnip 10y ago
  The salary floor is just the floor at which you do not have to prove you advertised in the US for the position first. Also the current bill proposed in the house would allow bonuses and equity to be considered party of the salary. So you could offer someone $65k a year in salary and $65k a year in stock with 4 year vesting without having to advertise the position in the US first.
rdtsc 10y ago
> I would get one from local market for that amount of money. Wait, why? Are you implying foreign workers are not competent and can't be exceptional? Surely it isn't that? Otherwise, sounds like then H1B will finally work as intended, you'd be able higher exceptional people from overseas who might not be available in your area? Maybe there is a distributed systems expert from Argentina or a compiler writer from Ghana. For you to reach out to another country, they'll obviously be very qualifies and demand a decent salary. > Plus, what international student will do once he completes the college, and with quarter of million in debts (say Bachelor only) ? Go home or get a $130k salary if he is qualified. International student acceptance doesn't somehow guarantee or imply a continuation of stay based on employment. There is (or was) an work program where they can work in the industry as co-op / intern for a year or two. That can probably be expanded. > Will you hire college fresh grad for 130K ? Don't think so. Yes I would! There can be exceptional graduates. I have seen and interviewed some. Google / Facebook / Microsoft already pays that much for good graduate and more. > This is USA, this IS a country made, constructed and developed by excellence and hard work of immigrants with their hopes and dreams. So if they do such good work we should reward them appropriately by paying them a competitive salary. H1B should not be a way to bring in cheap labor. You can argue there should be other visas for that but H1B shouldn't be that one. And somehow you are tying it to hopes and dream. What about the hopes and dreams of develops working in US? > There is no a notion of "nation" in USA, there is no such thing. That is completely bogus. There is a strong notion of a nation here precisely because there is ethnic, religious or other history. If anything Americans are criticized for over-emphasizing their "Americanism". > It's just a colony of immigrants moved away from their homes to build something they could not there. This is a dream land, this is an opportunity land and should remain such for everyone. Well if this is a dream surely we don't want ruin that dream for those who are here and suppress their wages.
- pm90 10y ago
  Really? From your handle, I did think you were among the more nuanced members in this forum. I guess this issue cuts too close to your heart though. > Yes I would! There can be exceptional graduates. I have seen and interviewed some. Google / Facebook / Microsoft already pays that much for good graduate and more Yes, and they are the exception not the rule. American tech sector is not just limited to these companies. And not just to the bay area where such salaries are common. > So if they do such good work we should reward them appropriately by paying them a competitive salary. H1B should not be a way to bring in cheap labor. 60k is NOT CHEAP LABOR in most parts of the country! Please consider that outside of major cities, it is a pretty decent salary, especially a great starting salary. > That is completely bogus. There is a strong notion of a nation here precisely because there is ethnic, religious or other history. If anything Americans are criticized for over-emphasizing their "Americanism". I think the OP mean more along the line of patrimony and culture that is common in the Old World. While Americans might beat their chest and proclaim their uniqueness, they have existed as nation for just over 300 years, while the culture of Europe and much of Asia goes back thousands of years. > Well if this is a dream surely we don't want ruin that dream for those who are here and suppress their wages. Precisely. So don't.
googletazer 10y ago
>I would not invite H1B on that position, I would get one from local market for that amount of money. Sounds like the effect is exactly whats intended then
arca_vorago 10y ago
"There is no a notion of "nation" in USA, there is no such thing." Oh you mean other than the revolution we fought to be the first nation in the world to establish a secular government based on the principles of natural rights and natural law? This pisses me off something fierce to hear people want all the benifits of the country but not want to learn basic citizenship duties and responsibilities. Our nation is the Constitution, and you don't know what you are talking about.

by cortuso 10y ago

cpursley 10y ago

> I would not invite H1B on that position, I would get one from local market for that amount of money Are you suggesting that a $130k floor for H1B workers would undermine the practice of undercutting local workers?

cortuso 10y ago
It's hard to predict what will really happen. Some businesses will hire more IT personal overseas, to amortize the costs and avoid H1B application at all. Some will start really searching for a local talent with higher price (that's what this idea is meant to do I guess). But considering that IT reports constantly shortage on candidates, a big gap indeed, regardless top notch universities, makes me think it's not about problem of lack of open positions, what this new idea aims to solve, it's about a will to do that job or not. Still, I'm talking about IT sector. In other areas of life things may be way different.
- unprepare 10y ago
  anytime you hear "shortage of candidates" you need to append "at the wage we are offering" at 1 million per year, do you think there would still be a shortage? how about 500k? Salaries are so bad in IT compared to development that I decided a couple months ago to start making the transition. I cant reasonably continue pursuing a career trajectory that i know will make me less money, and that is not valued by organizations. add to this the demands for IT jobs: certifications (costs hundreds of dollars per, need to refresh them every year or two) experience with laundry lists of technologies (i.e cisco networking experience is apparently not valid if this employer uses juniper/pfsense/etc.) probably the worst hours in the industry (yes devs get pagerduty, its not comparable) compare that to: literally no certification requirements (dont even need a high school diploma for many places) much better hours add to that substantially better pay, and its a real wonder why there is a 'shortage of candidates'
- Roboprog 10y ago
  Possibly they might look at hiring outside of the Bay Area in such exotic locations as Boise, DesMoines, Minneapolis, Detroit or other places where they have recent college graduates who would have been motivated to study STEM fields.
  - cpursley 10y ago
    There's places outside of the Bay Area? Blasphemy!
    - Roboprog 10y ago
      Yeah, you're right. We're all a bunch of stupid-heads in Sacramento, good for nothing but doing CRUD in COBOL++ (aka Java) :-)

jordanb 10y ago

> I would not invite H1B on that position, I would get one from local market for that amount of money. So you're saying the incentives would work as intended..

cortuso 10y ago
Again, my understanding of IT market, is that shortage of candidates Silicon Valley, and not only, so complains about, is because there are NO local candidates willing to take that job, and not because "all those indians steal our young grads jobs". If by saying "So you're saying the incentives would work as intended" you mean minimum salary wage will raise because of that, don't think so.
- unprepare 10y ago
  > NO local candidates willing to take that job >not because "all those indians steal our young grads jobs" Yet we have record numbers of college graduates working at starbucks and other hourly employers. Do you honestly believe that college graduates would rather work at starbucks or mcdonalds than a tech company doing IT?
  - jamesmp98 10y ago
    Well now that C.S. is "hip" it's a pain to land a junior job. I'm no graduate, but I am a self taught (albeit) hobbyist developer doing it for a few years now working as a part time stocker for $8.00/h because junior jobs A) Don't exist. or B) Have stupid requirements.
  - cortuso 10y ago
    In our company we have struggle to get applicants to apply. Junior, or Senior. May be it's our company, but in general I would agree that H1B should be meant for experienced personal. What is happening now, companies are getting qualified labor (years of experience, Masters/Phds) from overseas for $60K. Nice and shiny. My point is that this, most likely, will not open more entry level positions, or make companies willing to pay more for entry level engineer.

devmunchies 10y ago

> There is no a notion of "nation" in USA, there is no such thing Yeah ok, buddy. Try that line when you don't wanna pay taxes.

msabalau 10y ago
The term "nation" typically means a collection of people with a common culture and ethnicity. The "Poles" are a nation, Poland is a state. That's why the the term nation-state exists, and contrasts with, say, empires composed of multiple nations. Canada, for example, traditionally described as a binational state, is now typically identified as a multicultural state, with some Québécois disliking the change in emphasis. Americans as a people are united in sloppily mishandling the term "nation", mostly because it doesn't really apply to us.
- devmunchies 10y ago
  America absolutely has a culture. Have you never lived in another country? Our houses, cars, schools, music, food, pass times, athletics, language (slang, dialects), entertainment, government, habits, communication (verbal, body language), aspirations, societal expectations, humor, things we find offensive/inoffensive, etc.
  - msabalau 10y ago
    Britain has a culture, despite being composed of the English, Scots, and Welsh nations as well as many immigrants. One can, of course, feel entirely free to use words in arbitrary ways. But to correct someone (who clearly understands the correct usage of the term nation) with the nonsensical notion of a nation imposing taxes is odd.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
- ygaf 10y ago
  I'll admit to learning from your definition of nation just now. Sucks that I went well into adulthood never learning the proper meaning of a basic word. On the bright side, google has just given me the green light to continue using 'country' and state interchangeably. Americans sloppily mishandle a lot of things. That's a common culture right off the bat ;) in addition to everything devmunchies said.

refurb 10y ago

I think it's $130K, which is 2x as much as before. I think you need to get out of the Valley. It's come up on HN before how $125K+ salaries might be common in SV, but not in other areas of the US. Make the salary floor $130K and only SV will get to hire H1-Bs.

gnopgnip 10y ago
The salary floor is just the floor at which you do not have to prove you advertised in the US for the position first. Also the current bill proposed in the house would allow bonuses and equity to be considered party of the salary. So you could offer someone $65k a year in salary and $65k a year in stock with 4 year vesting without having to advertise the position in the US first.

rdtsc 10y ago

> I would get one from local market for that amount of money. Wait, why? Are you implying foreign workers are not competent and can't be exceptional? Surely it isn't that? Otherwise, sounds like then H1B will finally work as intended, you'd be able higher exceptional people from overseas who might not be available in your area? Maybe there is a distributed systems expert from Argentina or a compiler writer from Ghana. For you to reach out to another country, they'll obviously be very qualifies and demand a decent salary. > Plus, what international student will do once he completes the college, and with quarter of million in debts (say Bachelor only) ? Go home or get a $130k salary if he is qualified. International student acceptance doesn't somehow guarantee or imply a continuation of stay based on employment. There is (or was) an work program where they can work in the industry as co-op / intern for a year or two. That can probably be expanded. > Will you hire college fresh grad for 130K ? Don't think so. Yes I would! There can be exceptional graduates. I have seen and interviewed some. Google / Facebook / Microsoft already pays that much for good graduate and more. > This is USA, this IS a country made, constructed and developed by excellence and hard work of immigrants with their hopes and dreams. So if they do such good work we should reward them appropriately by paying them a competitive salary. H1B should not be a way to bring in cheap labor. You can argue there should be other visas for that but H1B shouldn't be that one. And somehow you are tying it to hopes and dream. What about the hopes and dreams of develops working in US? > There is no a notion of "nation" in USA, there is no such thing. That is completely bogus. There is a strong notion of a nation here precisely because there is ethnic, religious or other history. If anything Americans are criticized for over-emphasizing their "Americanism". > It's just a colony of immigrants moved away from their homes to build something they could not there. This is a dream land, this is an opportunity land and should remain such for everyone. Well if this is a dream surely we don't want ruin that dream for those who are here and suppress their wages.

pm90 10y ago
Really? From your handle, I did think you were among the more nuanced members in this forum. I guess this issue cuts too close to your heart though. > Yes I would! There can be exceptional graduates. I have seen and interviewed some. Google / Facebook / Microsoft already pays that much for good graduate and more Yes, and they are the exception not the rule. American tech sector is not just limited to these companies. And not just to the bay area where such salaries are common. > So if they do such good work we should reward them appropriately by paying them a competitive salary. H1B should not be a way to bring in cheap labor. 60k is NOT CHEAP LABOR in most parts of the country! Please consider that outside of major cities, it is a pretty decent salary, especially a great starting salary. > That is completely bogus. There is a strong notion of a nation here precisely because there is ethnic, religious or other history. If anything Americans are criticized for over-emphasizing their "Americanism". I think the OP mean more along the line of patrimony and culture that is common in the Old World. While Americans might beat their chest and proclaim their uniqueness, they have existed as nation for just over 300 years, while the culture of Europe and much of Asia goes back thousands of years. > Well if this is a dream surely we don't want ruin that dream for those who are here and suppress their wages. Precisely. So don't.

googletazer 10y ago

>I would not invite H1B on that position, I would get one from local market for that amount of money. Sounds like the effect is exactly whats intended then

arca_vorago 10y ago

"There is no a notion of "nation" in USA, there is no such thing." Oh you mean other than the revolution we fought to be the first nation in the world to establish a secular government based on the principles of natural rights and natural law? This pisses me off something fierce to hear people want all the benifits of the country but not want to learn basic citizenship duties and responsibilities. Our nation is the Constitution, and you don't know what you are talking about.