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While they leave weaselly terms like this in visas to give the government discretion, the expectation was that if you were law-abiding you had nothing to fear.

While they leave weaselly terms like this in visas to give the government discretion, the expectation was that if you were law-abiding you had nothing to fear. That expectation has been violated by recent actions, because green card holders with no black marks were turned away or prevented from even coming on the whim of the president. That devalues something like a green card dramatically because it could be rendered meaningless one day by fiat.

refurb 10y ago
You have a very rosy picture of immigration pre-Trump. I can remember years ago co-workers stuck in their home country after returning for holiday because of some administrative typo on their visa application or being turned away at the border because their story sounded "fishy". Immigrants have always be at the whim of immigration officials when it comes to entering the US. Read some of the US immigrations forums. It's not unusual for people to not return home for years for fear they can't get back in because of some change in policy.
- jacquesm 10y ago
  Yes, but those changes in policy did not usually arrive in the form of executive orders whilst people are in transit between countries. It's way too unpredictable to be workable for any of the parties involved. Timescale, drastic impact, unclear, possibly not legal what else is there to criticize?
johncolanduoni 10y ago
Eh, that might be overestimating the state of immigration in the U.S. pre-Trump. In particular people from the countries in the EO were already subject to a lot of grief, especially if they had a non-immigrant visa. I've known people who got stuck outside the country and missed a semester because they went to Canada while they had an F-1 visa. Not that making it predictably horrible isn't, well, horrible. And the green card thing is sheer lunacy.
- grey-area 10y ago
  Yes, it probably is not so surprising to people exposed 1st hand to the arbitrary system previously, the more extreme measures have just been a wake up call for those unaffected by it. It was horrible before, but I think rescinding green cards arbitrarily and en masse takes it to a new level, I'm glad it is shining some light on these procedures and making people think about why those arbitrary restrictions are in place based on place of birth.

refurb 10y ago

You have a very rosy picture of immigration pre-Trump. I can remember years ago co-workers stuck in their home country after returning for holiday because of some administrative typo on their visa application or being turned away at the border because their story sounded "fishy". Immigrants have always be at the whim of immigration officials when it comes to entering the US. Read some of the US immigrations forums. It's not unusual for people to not return home for years for fear they can't get back in because of some change in policy.

jacquesm 10y ago
Yes, but those changes in policy did not usually arrive in the form of executive orders whilst people are in transit between countries. It's way too unpredictable to be workable for any of the parties involved. Timescale, drastic impact, unclear, possibly not legal what else is there to criticize?

johncolanduoni 10y ago

Eh, that might be overestimating the state of immigration in the U.S. pre-Trump. In particular people from the countries in the EO were already subject to a lot of grief, especially if they had a non-immigrant visa. I've known people who got stuck outside the country and missed a semester because they went to Canada while they had an F-1 visa. Not that making it predictably horrible isn't, well, horrible. And the green card thing is sheer lunacy.

grey-area 10y ago
Yes, it probably is not so surprising to people exposed 1st hand to the arbitrary system previously, the more extreme measures have just been a wake up call for those unaffected by it. It was horrible before, but I think rescinding green cards arbitrarily and en masse takes it to a new level, I'm glad it is shining some light on these procedures and making people think about why those arbitrary restrictions are in place based on place of birth.