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I see it as more of a temporary compensation for earlier gender based biases. In a world where boys and girls are given the same opportunities at (even) younge

I see it as more of a temporary compensation for earlier gender based biases. In a world where boys and girls are given the same opportunities at (even) younger ages, you wouldn't need something like this. As it stands right now, it is intimidating for a girl to sign up for her first computer science class knowing that it will be full of boys that have been encouraged to do computer sciencey things from an earlier age. There is the perception that the girl will come in at a disadvantage. Allowing a them to sign up for a class with the perception that they all have equal footing/previous knowledge could give them the confidence they need to join the classes with boys that are perceived to have more experience. When the time comes that girls are signing up for computer science classes at the same rate as boys, then classes like this would no longer be necessary. That being said, public schools cannot create X-only classes. There is no discrimination in which students can signup for my computer science classes and I have unfortunately low female enrollment.

deleted 10y ago
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sh_tinh_hair 10y ago
Apologetics only gets you so far. In this case I don't care for the attempt. Let those who have an interest take advantage and the rest catch as catch can. This marketed approach is badly conceived.
reitanqild 10y ago
of boys that have been encouraged to do computer sciencey things from an earlier age. YMMW but IIRC my experience has been a bit different :-/ Edit: added IIRC
wolfgke 10y ago
> I see it as more of a temporary compensation for earlier gender based biases. So you tolerate that a complete sex shall be punished for former sins. Clearly not my sense of justice. > In a world where boys and girls are given the same opportunities at (even) younger ages, you wouldn't need something like this. Everybody can use the internet to learn coding. But at least to me it seems that mostly boys (with few exceptions) seem to love doing this - in particular from young age on.
- hdctambien 10y ago
  > So you tolerate that a complete sex shall be punished for former sins This is not a zero-sum game. Creating a new opportunity for girls does not remove an existing opportunity for a boy. > But at least to me it seems that mostly boys (with few exceptions) seem to love doing this - in particular from young age on Maybe you should try talking to more girls and asking them what they are interested in.
  - wolfgke 10y ago
    > > So you tolerate that a complete sex shall be punished for former sins > This is not a zero-sum game. Creating a new opportunity for girls does not remove an existing opportunity for a boy. Not when quotas are involved. In Germany, where I live, every few years serious attempts to introduce women quota for companies are attempted to pass as a law (which typically are only prevented in the last moment because of massive protests of business associations).
    - metaobject 10y ago
      So are there any gender quotas currently in place?
      - wolfgke 10y ago
        Some political parties already have quotas in their statutes for a long time (Die Grünen (Green Party) - 50%; SPD - 30% I think). Since Januar 2016 gender quotas for the supervisory council of the 106 largest market-listed companies were introduced. For restaffing in the supervisory council there is a quota of 30% for both gender (or the position has to be left vacant). Wikipedia link: > https://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Frauenquote&oldid=161310967#Deutschland_2 https://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Frauenquote&oldid... Here a Reuters article about the topic: > http://web.archive.org/web/20160619090749/http://de.reuters.com/article/deutschland-frauenquote-bundestag-idDEKBN0M20XI20150306 http://web.archive.org/web/20160619090749/http://de.reuters.... Here an "official" article by the Federal Minestry for Family Affairs, Senior Citizens, Women and Youth ["Federal Minestry for everybody except men" ;-) ]: > https://www.bmfsfj.de/bmfsfj/themen/gleichstellung/frauen-und-arbeitswelt/gesetz-fuer-die-gleichberechtigte-teilhabe-von-frauen-und-maennern-an-fuehrungspositionen/78562 https://www.bmfsfj.de/bmfsfj/themen/gleichstellung/frauen-un...
FT_intern 10y ago
>I see it as more of a temporary compensation for earlier gender based biases. That hasn't been proven or quantified. If you're going to use sexism to fix perceived sexism, you should quantify and prove the original sexism first.

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sh_tinh_hair 10y ago

Apologetics only gets you so far. In this case I don't care for the attempt. Let those who have an interest take advantage and the rest catch as catch can. This marketed approach is badly conceived.

reitanqild 10y ago

of boys that have been encouraged to do computer sciencey things from an earlier age. YMMW but IIRC my experience has been a bit different :-/ Edit: added IIRC

wolfgke 10y ago

> I see it as more of a temporary compensation for earlier gender based biases. So you tolerate that a complete sex shall be punished for former sins. Clearly not my sense of justice. > In a world where boys and girls are given the same opportunities at (even) younger ages, you wouldn't need something like this. Everybody can use the internet to learn coding. But at least to me it seems that mostly boys (with few exceptions) seem to love doing this - in particular from young age on.

hdctambien 10y ago
> So you tolerate that a complete sex shall be punished for former sins This is not a zero-sum game. Creating a new opportunity for girls does not remove an existing opportunity for a boy. > But at least to me it seems that mostly boys (with few exceptions) seem to love doing this - in particular from young age on Maybe you should try talking to more girls and asking them what they are interested in.
- wolfgke 10y ago
  > > So you tolerate that a complete sex shall be punished for former sins > This is not a zero-sum game. Creating a new opportunity for girls does not remove an existing opportunity for a boy. Not when quotas are involved. In Germany, where I live, every few years serious attempts to introduce women quota for companies are attempted to pass as a law (which typically are only prevented in the last moment because of massive protests of business associations).
  - metaobject 10y ago
    So are there any gender quotas currently in place?
    - wolfgke 10y ago
      Some political parties already have quotas in their statutes for a long time (Die Grünen (Green Party) - 50%; SPD - 30% I think). Since Januar 2016 gender quotas for the supervisory council of the 106 largest market-listed companies were introduced. For restaffing in the supervisory council there is a quota of 30% for both gender (or the position has to be left vacant). Wikipedia link: > https://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Frauenquote&oldid=161310967#Deutschland_2 https://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Frauenquote&oldid... Here a Reuters article about the topic: > http://web.archive.org/web/20160619090749/http://de.reuters.com/article/deutschland-frauenquote-bundestag-idDEKBN0M20XI20150306 http://web.archive.org/web/20160619090749/http://de.reuters.... Here an "official" article by the Federal Minestry for Family Affairs, Senior Citizens, Women and Youth ["Federal Minestry for everybody except men" ;-) ]: > https://www.bmfsfj.de/bmfsfj/themen/gleichstellung/frauen-und-arbeitswelt/gesetz-fuer-die-gleichberechtigte-teilhabe-von-frauen-und-maennern-an-fuehrungspositionen/78562 https://www.bmfsfj.de/bmfsfj/themen/gleichstellung/frauen-un...

FT_intern 10y ago

>I see it as more of a temporary compensation for earlier gender based biases. That hasn't been proven or quantified. If you're going to use sexism to fix perceived sexism, you should quantify and prove the original sexism first.