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With serial support, you definitely want scrollback, since you can't run GNU screen (or tmux for the hipsters) during a HW bootsequence. It absolutely seems li

With serial support, you definitely want scrollback, since you can't run GNU screen (or tmux for the hipsters) during a HW bootsequence. It absolutely seems like very conflicting decisions user-experience wise.

jstimpfle 10y ago
What reasons are there not to use tmux over screen these days?
- josteink 10y ago
  Plenty of reasons: Habits. Existing scripts. Muscle-memory. GNU/GPL over non-GNU/GPL. To mention a few. I've honestly not found a single feature in tmux which I need which isn't already covered (and imprinted in finger-memory) by GNU screen. On the flip side, I'd ask: What reason is there for a seasoned GNU screen user to bother switching from something proven, and which works?
  - jsjohnst 10y ago
    Other reasons have been listed already, but if you're an iTerm2 user, another strong reason to use tmux over screen is the fact tmux can use "native windows" in macOS and you have deep integrations between the two. It's especially useful with remote tmux sessions.
  - jstimpfle 10y ago
    These reasons are valid, but I'm more interested in technical reasons. I switched to tmux when I needed to launch a lot of simultaneous jobs, categorized in three sessions (starting in "active", moving to "success" or "fail" when finished). I couldn't achieve it in screen at the time. The CLI interface of tmux is not very intuitive and I think somewhat inconsistent (maybe a bit like git?), but at least I could achieve what I wanted without major compromises. After a quick google search my impression is that running a shell command in a particular GNU screen window is still painful.
    - josteink 10y ago
      > These reasons are valid, but I'm more interested in technical reasons. Sure. And let's go full circle while we're at it: GNU screen supports connecting directly to a serial device :) Last I checked tmux doesn't.
jsjohnst 10y ago
Can you describe the scenario where you can't use screen but can use a terminal emulator with serial support? I've done a ton of work using serial (mostly routers and switches, but some other stuff too) and never found an instance where that didn't work.
cuckcuckspruce 10y ago
You can absolutely run GNU screen during a HW boot sequence through serial. See the Windows Types[1] section of the GNU screen manual. [1] https://www.gnu.org/software/screen/manual/html_node/Window-Types.html#Window-Types https://www.gnu.org/software/screen/manual/html_node/Window-...
- swinglock 10y ago
  But if you're going to use screen to connect to your serial port, what was the point in adding serial to support to the terminal emulator? To make the argument that scrollback is bloat is insane if you at the same time add serial support but need scrollback for serial usage, so you use screen instead which had both serial support and scrollback.

jstimpfle 10y ago

What reasons are there not to use tmux over screen these days?

josteink 10y ago
Plenty of reasons: Habits. Existing scripts. Muscle-memory. GNU/GPL over non-GNU/GPL. To mention a few. I've honestly not found a single feature in tmux which I need which isn't already covered (and imprinted in finger-memory) by GNU screen. On the flip side, I'd ask: What reason is there for a seasoned GNU screen user to bother switching from something proven, and which works?
- jsjohnst 10y ago
  Other reasons have been listed already, but if you're an iTerm2 user, another strong reason to use tmux over screen is the fact tmux can use "native windows" in macOS and you have deep integrations between the two. It's especially useful with remote tmux sessions.
- jstimpfle 10y ago
  These reasons are valid, but I'm more interested in technical reasons. I switched to tmux when I needed to launch a lot of simultaneous jobs, categorized in three sessions (starting in "active", moving to "success" or "fail" when finished). I couldn't achieve it in screen at the time. The CLI interface of tmux is not very intuitive and I think somewhat inconsistent (maybe a bit like git?), but at least I could achieve what I wanted without major compromises. After a quick google search my impression is that running a shell command in a particular GNU screen window is still painful.
  - josteink 10y ago
    > These reasons are valid, but I'm more interested in technical reasons. Sure. And let's go full circle while we're at it: GNU screen supports connecting directly to a serial device :) Last I checked tmux doesn't.

jsjohnst 10y ago

Can you describe the scenario where you can't use screen but can use a terminal emulator with serial support? I've done a ton of work using serial (mostly routers and switches, but some other stuff too) and never found an instance where that didn't work.

cuckcuckspruce 10y ago

You can absolutely run GNU screen during a HW boot sequence through serial. See the Windows Types[1] section of the GNU screen manual. [1] https://www.gnu.org/software/screen/manual/html_node/Window-Types.html#Window-Types https://www.gnu.org/software/screen/manual/html_node/Window-...

swinglock 10y ago
But if you're going to use screen to connect to your serial port, what was the point in adding serial to support to the terminal emulator? To make the argument that scrollback is bloat is insane if you at the same time add serial support but need scrollback for serial usage, so you use screen instead which had both serial support and scrollback.