8 ms·

Microsoft seem to have learned a lot from Java in designing their new .NET Core CLR. It has gotten almost everything right: * a small and fast CLR (JVM) * a c

by nikcub 10y ago

Microsoft seem to have learned a lot from Java in designing their new .NET Core CLR. It has gotten almost everything right: * a small and fast CLR (JVM) * a class library that defaults to almost nothing but primitive classes * proper and standardized version, platform and package management (NuGet) * open source and MIT license[0] * a patent promise[1] * arguably the best dev IDE available (Visual Studio) and one of the best up-and-coming dev text editors (VS Code) * Native ORM, templating, MVC, web server so there is one way to do things * open source middleware standard (OWIN) * they left out, for now, attempting the hard ugly stuff like x-platform GUI * all platforms are equal citizens, they acquired Xamarin for dev tools and release their own Docker containers. * it's already getting good distribution (on RedHat) even tho it's only 6 months out from a 1.0 release. Java may have missed the window for fixing some of these issues in their platform - I feel that if Android were being developed today, they'd almost certainly take .NET Core as the runtime. I've yet to commit to using .NET Core anywhere, but from what I know about it so far it is impressive. [0] https://github.com/dotnet/coreclr https://github.com/dotnet/coreclr [1] https://raw.githubusercontent.com/dotnet/coreclr/master/PATENTS.TXT https://raw.githubusercontent.com/dotnet/coreclr/master/PATE...

coldpie 10y ago
> * all platforms are equal citizens This may be true for the Core CLR specifically, but it's not true of real .NET apps that are being built today. The vast, vast majority are strongly tied to the Windows platform, especially because of the lack of a cross-platform GUI like you mention. As a Wine developer, it's a huge pain in our side because we either have to run the entire .NET virtual machine, which is hard, or depend on Mono, which is by design not completely compatible. This results in really souring my opinion of .NET and .NET applications when compared with win32 applications that do tend to work quite well in Wine.
frant-hartm 10y ago
I could more or less agree with most of it apart from > arguably the best dev IDE available (Visual Studio) and one of the best up-and-coming dev text editors (VS Code) https://www.jetbrains.com/resharper/documentation/comparisonMatrix_R2016_1_vs2015.html https://www.jetbrains.com/resharper/documentation/comparison... Refactoring, Coding assistance, Navigation & search sections being most important.
- alimbada 10y ago
  Although the last version I used seriously was VS2013, VS on its own is pretty mediocre. With ReSharper though, nothing beats it in my opinion. On the other hand I've been using Eclipse and IntelliJ for the past year. Eclipse is not even worth talking about but even IntelliJ does not come close to vanilla VS in terms of usability. Again, my opinion.
  - EGreg 10y ago
    What is better than VS? PHPStorm etc?
    - alimbada 10y ago
      I actually can't name anything better. I was just saying that whilst VS is "the best", the best isn't really that great (without a plugin from Jetbrains)...
  - tonyedgecombe 10y ago
    Yes, it will be interesting to see what the JetBrains C# IDE is like when it's released.
- kdevrou 10y ago
  I couldn't agree more. I constantly see this claim made about Visual Studio. I find it to be in the way most of the time. It does sound like most of the features that I want are in Resharper; I'll have to try it out.
  - flamtap 10y ago
    You will never, ever look back.
- kdazzle 10y ago
  Yeah, if I had a dollar for every time I had to restart Visual Studio in order to get something to work...especially test debugging. But IntelliJ always works perfectly. Must say that I can't wait for Jetbrains' Rider to come out.
geodel 10y ago
> I feel that if Android were being developed today, they'd almost certainly take .NET Core as the runtime. If it were to develop today as against raising against time(Apple) then Google would have written their own runtime and everything.
- simonh 10y ago
  But then when Android was initially developed and acquired by Google Apple wasn't in the phone business at all, so the base architecture was already laid down long before the race started.
  - geodel 10y ago
    Apple was getting in phone business at that time. Original Android was nothing like Android user saw when it was released on phone. Google had advanced knowledge about Apple plans as Eric Schmidt was on Apple board at that time.
- untoreh 10y ago
  isn't dart with flutter pretty much that?
towndrunk 10y ago
> they left out, for now, attempting the hard ugly stuff like x-platform GUI What is the status of this? Will MS be bringing WPF (XAML) to all platforms?
- ManFromUranus 10y ago
  IMO Microsoft will never bring WPF to any other platform but windows. Core CLR (and web GUIs) are what will be available on other platforms. I think that WPF will always remain a windows thing. For that matter WPF is not even getting developed much on Windows and is largely left as it is in favor of putting their effort into web technologies and CoreCLR
filomeno 10y ago
> Microsoft seem to have learned a lot from Java in designing their new .NET Core CLR Of course they did. It's not a secret they designed it as a Java clone when the justice ruled they couldn't embrace the original one. However, they missed something: cross-platformness. So essentially you get a windows only Java platform. That's why not everybody finds it impressive nor are looking forward to commit to using it everywhere (they wouldn't be able, though)

by nikcub 10y ago

coldpie 10y ago

> * all platforms are equal citizens This may be true for the Core CLR specifically, but it's not true of real .NET apps that are being built today. The vast, vast majority are strongly tied to the Windows platform, especially because of the lack of a cross-platform GUI like you mention. As a Wine developer, it's a huge pain in our side because we either have to run the entire .NET virtual machine, which is hard, or depend on Mono, which is by design not completely compatible. This results in really souring my opinion of .NET and .NET applications when compared with win32 applications that do tend to work quite well in Wine.

frant-hartm 10y ago

I could more or less agree with most of it apart from > arguably the best dev IDE available (Visual Studio) and one of the best up-and-coming dev text editors (VS Code) https://www.jetbrains.com/resharper/documentation/comparisonMatrix_R2016_1_vs2015.html https://www.jetbrains.com/resharper/documentation/comparison... Refactoring, Coding assistance, Navigation & search sections being most important.

alimbada 10y ago
Although the last version I used seriously was VS2013, VS on its own is pretty mediocre. With ReSharper though, nothing beats it in my opinion. On the other hand I've been using Eclipse and IntelliJ for the past year. Eclipse is not even worth talking about but even IntelliJ does not come close to vanilla VS in terms of usability. Again, my opinion.
- EGreg 10y ago
  What is better than VS? PHPStorm etc?
  - alimbada 10y ago
    I actually can't name anything better. I was just saying that whilst VS is "the best", the best isn't really that great (without a plugin from Jetbrains)...
- tonyedgecombe 10y ago
  Yes, it will be interesting to see what the JetBrains C# IDE is like when it's released.
kdevrou 10y ago
I couldn't agree more. I constantly see this claim made about Visual Studio. I find it to be in the way most of the time. It does sound like most of the features that I want are in Resharper; I'll have to try it out.
- flamtap 10y ago
  You will never, ever look back.
kdazzle 10y ago
Yeah, if I had a dollar for every time I had to restart Visual Studio in order to get something to work...especially test debugging. But IntelliJ always works perfectly. Must say that I can't wait for Jetbrains' Rider to come out.

geodel 10y ago

> I feel that if Android were being developed today, they'd almost certainly take .NET Core as the runtime. If it were to develop today as against raising against time(Apple) then Google would have written their own runtime and everything.

simonh 10y ago
But then when Android was initially developed and acquired by Google Apple wasn't in the phone business at all, so the base architecture was already laid down long before the race started.
- geodel 10y ago
  Apple was getting in phone business at that time. Original Android was nothing like Android user saw when it was released on phone. Google had advanced knowledge about Apple plans as Eric Schmidt was on Apple board at that time.
untoreh 10y ago
isn't dart with flutter pretty much that?

towndrunk 10y ago

> they left out, for now, attempting the hard ugly stuff like x-platform GUI What is the status of this? Will MS be bringing WPF (XAML) to all platforms?

ManFromUranus 10y ago
IMO Microsoft will never bring WPF to any other platform but windows. Core CLR (and web GUIs) are what will be available on other platforms. I think that WPF will always remain a windows thing. For that matter WPF is not even getting developed much on Windows and is largely left as it is in favor of putting their effort into web technologies and CoreCLR

filomeno 10y ago

> Microsoft seem to have learned a lot from Java in designing their new .NET Core CLR Of course they did. It's not a secret they designed it as a Java clone when the justice ruled they couldn't embrace the original one. However, they missed something: cross-platformness. So essentially you get a windows only Java platform. That's why not everybody finds it impressive nor are looking forward to commit to using it everywhere (they wouldn't be able, though)