8 ms·

This is very true in London, unfortunately. Cars destroy the city - both by polluting it, and making walking and biking dangerous. Boris Johnson's goal as mayor

by nvarsj 10y ago

This is very true in London, unfortunately. Cars destroy the city - both by polluting it, and making walking and biking dangerous. Boris Johnson's goal as mayor was to optimise traffic flow through London, which just encouraged more cars. Going to a city like Cambridge where the center is shut down to cars is quite eye opening - lots of kids and people walking and biking. In London it's just a sea of cars driving and parked on sidewalks so you can't actually walk anywhere safely. Case in point: my daughter had a very near miss when she was about 2. She was walking down the side walk a bit in front of me, and this middle aged lady in a Range Rover went onto the sidewalk to get around a stopped car, barely missing my daughter. I yelled at her but she didn't even notice in her sound proof SUV.

ciaranm 10y ago
I make a point of banging on any vehicle that's nearly hit someone and not noticed/acknowledged it - regardless of whether it was me they nearly hit or not. People get mad (especially people driving vans/small trucks), but it's disgraceful that people are driving multi-tonne vehicles and are completely oblivious to their surroundings. I'm glad your daughter is ok.
- wj 10y ago
  I did that when I was nearly hit in a marked crosswalk (they didn't slow down and were less than arm's length from me) that was at an intersection with no light. They went around the block to come back and start threatening me for hitting their car...
- de_Selby 10y ago
  As a cyclist it happens all the time, it goes something like this: 1) A car comes within centimeters of side swiping me and knocking me down. They don't even notice I'm there. 2) They stop at the next traffic light, I tap on the window to tell them to be more careful. 3) They get angry at me. 4) Other drivers see this interaction and soon you see articles in newspapers complaining about "militant cyclists"
  - ciaranm 10y ago
    Yes, this is mostly my experience as well. I had a delivery truck driver get out and start yelling abuse because I banged on the back of his vehicle to alert him that he nearly knocked a woman off her bike a couple days ago. This isn't rare, either - there's at least 1 shouted interacted per week. It's no wonder my friends are afraid to get on the roads/their bikes.
  - monocasa 10y ago
    I mean, around me the made a law that you can't be within 3 feet of a cyclist. After that passed there was a group of cyclists going around with yardsticks trying to smack cars while riding. Pretending that there aren't extremely toxic cyclists doesn't help the problem.
    - brewdad 10y ago
      I LOVE this idea. Don't want your precious car scratched, then give 3 feet. My street has no sidewalks and cars constantly exceeding the 25mph limit. I'm pretty sure I could damage some vehicles doing nothing more than holding my house keys sideways in my hands as I walk/run. Drivers truly don't care about anything outside their windshield.
      - monocasa 10y ago
        They were actively riding into lanes and hitting cars.
    - eots 10y ago
      Cyclists will often ride between rows of cars that are stopped at a traffic light in an effort to get to the front, probably assuming that the 3 feet law doesn't apply in that case. Cyclists don't have to be toxic for the whole setup to not work, they just have to not obey the same laws that are in place for cars. Where I live, I'm more likely to be hit by a cyclist on a pedestrian crossing than by a car.
      - eru 10y ago
- bluejekyll 10y ago
  I used to do this all the time as well, and then I started noticing that it only increased the rage that I felt and also the rage in the other drivers. It finally came to a head when a car tried to run me down between multiple lights. My new form of riding in the city is to be 100% defensive all the time, but not in a give up my rights as a cyclist way. I assume cars will do dumb things (because they always do) so I avoid their blind spots, never pass on the right, alsways take the entire lane so that a car can not pass you if it's not safe (only do this in the city), when traffic is slow assume cars will jump quickly around in lanes etc. Many people get angry and defensive when you yell at or reprimand them. The goal is to try and inform them of their poor driving without increasing anger on both sides. Now I do this with a look, and no anger, and people tend to respond to that apologetically.
- jdavis703 10y ago
  Any vehicle that is close enough for me to touch I hit. There's no reason to drive that close to a human being who doesn't have hundreds of pounds of armor around them.
kittiepryde 10y ago
I am the USA, in like a suburb-ish area. And uh.. Cars on sidewalks? Is that common in London? How did that become a thing? It sounds super dangerous.
- purity_resigns 10y ago
  I've ended up on a sidewalk turning with snow on the ground. If the sidewalks are the round kinds it seems like that'd be especially easy.
- _benedict 10y ago
  It's not as bad as the parent suggests, but our roads are much smaller than in the US, so on residential streets it is common to have only a single effective lane even if residents park on the pavement (as we call sidewalks). So to stop completely blocking traffic flow, this is what happens. There's typically plenty of room still on the pavement to walk in this scenario, so I've no idea why they're complaining. It's never been an issue in my entire life living here.
- balabaster 10y ago
  It's an every day occurrence in London unfortunately. People park on sidewalks, cars parked down both sides of narrow streets with no room for cars to pass in opposite directions, you have to pull into gaps between parked cars to allow head on traffic to pass. In some places there you only have inches on either wing mirror to even pass through. If you've never been to London, you can't begin to appreciate the width of your roads here in North America. In places where you have 20 mph zones because you feel like you can't physically get 2 cars past each other in North America, not only do you have traffic flow in both directions, the speed limit is 10 mph faster and everyone is still speeding. There are places where if you don't park on the sidewalk, there isn't enough space on the actual roadway for traffic to pass... so people park on the sidewalk because "where else am I gonna park?" This is everyday life in London, and people rarely even give it a second thought or bat an eyelid until someone gets hit, and then there's outrage for a day or two and then everyone shrugs and say "that's just the way it is" and goes back to their everyday lives. Is this crazy? I guess it is, but that's London... and every other old world town in the country. Streets were built long before there were cars, houses line both sides of streets and so the roads can't be widened without knocking down hundreds or in the occasional place thousands of years of history. We take our heritage more seriously than our need for wider roads. We all greatly over estimate our ability to drive and we all think we're the next World Rally Championship champion - because we all drive stick. None of those shitty automatics you North Americans love. When we drive, we want to drive, not cruise luxuriously on our floating cloud, cut off from the feeling of the road by soft suspension. So imagine cars dashing through tight streets, with no room for two way traffic - even though it's a 2 way street, other cars parked close on either side, almost grazing your wing mirrors as you whip through and your only thought is I hope nothing comes the other way, the last place I could've let them pass was 400m back and I'd have to back up this bastard all the way back to there to let them pass. Ironically, you have one of 2 states when you're driving on the circular road around London, our M25 motorway (that's what we call highways in the UK, motorways). You're either whipping along at 90mph (the speed limit is 70mph) 15ft from the bumper of the guy in front of you and the guy behind you 15ft from your bumper... all the way around the M25, or someone's had an accident and you're crawling along at 20mph wondering if you're ever going to get home. The 3 lanes of the motorway much of the way around is narrower than your 2 lane highways here. The first time you ever drive in this kind of environment you feel one of two feelings - either trepidation, anxiety and nausea, or a level of indescribable exhilaration. That's what driving in England is like. It's like an extreme sport compared to driving in North America.
mironathetin 10y ago
"This is very true in London, unfortunately ..." I admire the Dutch. They use the bicycle everywhere and in all weather conditions. The result? Their cities even sound so different. It is calm, very little car noise. Amazing.
- _benedict 10y ago
  Dangerous as a pedestrian though - especially if you aren't used to it!
  - mironathetin 10y ago
    yes, I wanted to add that remark as well, especially because the topic is about kids. But I didn't. And of course bicycles are far less dangerous than any car. So there is no reason to complain or criticise this great achievement.
    - d4rti 10y ago
      The kids ride bikes too.
    - _benedict 10y ago
      Yes, it wasn't meant so much as a criticism as a caveat.
      - gjjrfcbugxbhf 10y ago
        It is a bullshit caveat. Bikes are orders of magnitude less dangerous than cars for children.
      - deleted 10y ago
        [deleted]
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
eru 10y ago
You complain about London---and I just moved from Sydney to London and enjoy the relative pedestrian-friendliness here compared to that car-centric hellhole down-under.

by nvarsj 10y ago

ciaranm 10y ago

I make a point of banging on any vehicle that's nearly hit someone and not noticed/acknowledged it - regardless of whether it was me they nearly hit or not. People get mad (especially people driving vans/small trucks), but it's disgraceful that people are driving multi-tonne vehicles and are completely oblivious to their surroundings. I'm glad your daughter is ok.

wj 10y ago
I did that when I was nearly hit in a marked crosswalk (they didn't slow down and were less than arm's length from me) that was at an intersection with no light. They went around the block to come back and start threatening me for hitting their car...
de_Selby 10y ago
As a cyclist it happens all the time, it goes something like this: 1) A car comes within centimeters of side swiping me and knocking me down. They don't even notice I'm there. 2) They stop at the next traffic light, I tap on the window to tell them to be more careful. 3) They get angry at me. 4) Other drivers see this interaction and soon you see articles in newspapers complaining about "militant cyclists"
- ciaranm 10y ago
  Yes, this is mostly my experience as well. I had a delivery truck driver get out and start yelling abuse because I banged on the back of his vehicle to alert him that he nearly knocked a woman off her bike a couple days ago. This isn't rare, either - there's at least 1 shouted interacted per week. It's no wonder my friends are afraid to get on the roads/their bikes.
- monocasa 10y ago
  I mean, around me the made a law that you can't be within 3 feet of a cyclist. After that passed there was a group of cyclists going around with yardsticks trying to smack cars while riding. Pretending that there aren't extremely toxic cyclists doesn't help the problem.
  - brewdad 10y ago
    I LOVE this idea. Don't want your precious car scratched, then give 3 feet. My street has no sidewalks and cars constantly exceeding the 25mph limit. I'm pretty sure I could damage some vehicles doing nothing more than holding my house keys sideways in my hands as I walk/run. Drivers truly don't care about anything outside their windshield.
    - monocasa 10y ago
      They were actively riding into lanes and hitting cars.
  - eots 10y ago
    Cyclists will often ride between rows of cars that are stopped at a traffic light in an effort to get to the front, probably assuming that the 3 feet law doesn't apply in that case. Cyclists don't have to be toxic for the whole setup to not work, they just have to not obey the same laws that are in place for cars. Where I live, I'm more likely to be hit by a cyclist on a pedestrian crossing than by a car.
    - eru 10y ago
bluejekyll 10y ago
I used to do this all the time as well, and then I started noticing that it only increased the rage that I felt and also the rage in the other drivers. It finally came to a head when a car tried to run me down between multiple lights. My new form of riding in the city is to be 100% defensive all the time, but not in a give up my rights as a cyclist way. I assume cars will do dumb things (because they always do) so I avoid their blind spots, never pass on the right, alsways take the entire lane so that a car can not pass you if it's not safe (only do this in the city), when traffic is slow assume cars will jump quickly around in lanes etc. Many people get angry and defensive when you yell at or reprimand them. The goal is to try and inform them of their poor driving without increasing anger on both sides. Now I do this with a look, and no anger, and people tend to respond to that apologetically.
jdavis703 10y ago
Any vehicle that is close enough for me to touch I hit. There's no reason to drive that close to a human being who doesn't have hundreds of pounds of armor around them.

kittiepryde 10y ago

I am the USA, in like a suburb-ish area. And uh.. Cars on sidewalks? Is that common in London? How did that become a thing? It sounds super dangerous.

purity_resigns 10y ago
I've ended up on a sidewalk turning with snow on the ground. If the sidewalks are the round kinds it seems like that'd be especially easy.
_benedict 10y ago
It's not as bad as the parent suggests, but our roads are much smaller than in the US, so on residential streets it is common to have only a single effective lane even if residents park on the pavement (as we call sidewalks). So to stop completely blocking traffic flow, this is what happens. There's typically plenty of room still on the pavement to walk in this scenario, so I've no idea why they're complaining. It's never been an issue in my entire life living here.
balabaster 10y ago
It's an every day occurrence in London unfortunately. People park on sidewalks, cars parked down both sides of narrow streets with no room for cars to pass in opposite directions, you have to pull into gaps between parked cars to allow head on traffic to pass. In some places there you only have inches on either wing mirror to even pass through. If you've never been to London, you can't begin to appreciate the width of your roads here in North America. In places where you have 20 mph zones because you feel like you can't physically get 2 cars past each other in North America, not only do you have traffic flow in both directions, the speed limit is 10 mph faster and everyone is still speeding. There are places where if you don't park on the sidewalk, there isn't enough space on the actual roadway for traffic to pass... so people park on the sidewalk because "where else am I gonna park?" This is everyday life in London, and people rarely even give it a second thought or bat an eyelid until someone gets hit, and then there's outrage for a day or two and then everyone shrugs and say "that's just the way it is" and goes back to their everyday lives. Is this crazy? I guess it is, but that's London... and every other old world town in the country. Streets were built long before there were cars, houses line both sides of streets and so the roads can't be widened without knocking down hundreds or in the occasional place thousands of years of history. We take our heritage more seriously than our need for wider roads. We all greatly over estimate our ability to drive and we all think we're the next World Rally Championship champion - because we all drive stick. None of those shitty automatics you North Americans love. When we drive, we want to drive, not cruise luxuriously on our floating cloud, cut off from the feeling of the road by soft suspension. So imagine cars dashing through tight streets, with no room for two way traffic - even though it's a 2 way street, other cars parked close on either side, almost grazing your wing mirrors as you whip through and your only thought is I hope nothing comes the other way, the last place I could've let them pass was 400m back and I'd have to back up this bastard all the way back to there to let them pass. Ironically, you have one of 2 states when you're driving on the circular road around London, our M25 motorway (that's what we call highways in the UK, motorways). You're either whipping along at 90mph (the speed limit is 70mph) 15ft from the bumper of the guy in front of you and the guy behind you 15ft from your bumper... all the way around the M25, or someone's had an accident and you're crawling along at 20mph wondering if you're ever going to get home. The 3 lanes of the motorway much of the way around is narrower than your 2 lane highways here. The first time you ever drive in this kind of environment you feel one of two feelings - either trepidation, anxiety and nausea, or a level of indescribable exhilaration. That's what driving in England is like. It's like an extreme sport compared to driving in North America.

mironathetin 10y ago

"This is very true in London, unfortunately ..." I admire the Dutch. They use the bicycle everywhere and in all weather conditions. The result? Their cities even sound so different. It is calm, very little car noise. Amazing.

_benedict 10y ago
Dangerous as a pedestrian though - especially if you aren't used to it!
- mironathetin 10y ago
  yes, I wanted to add that remark as well, especially because the topic is about kids. But I didn't. And of course bicycles are far less dangerous than any car. So there is no reason to complain or criticise this great achievement.
  - d4rti 10y ago
    The kids ride bikes too.
  - _benedict 10y ago
    Yes, it wasn't meant so much as a criticism as a caveat.
    - gjjrfcbugxbhf 10y ago
      It is a bullshit caveat. Bikes are orders of magnitude less dangerous than cars for children.
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]

eru 10y ago

You complain about London---and I just moved from Sydney to London and enjoy the relative pedestrian-friendliness here compared to that car-centric hellhole down-under.