4 ms·

It's definitely an important quote. It goes pretty well with the whole "freedom from porn" and "no one is forcing you to use iPad or develop for it" attitude. I

It's definitely an important quote. It goes pretty well with the whole "freedom from porn" and "no one is forcing you to use iPad or develop for it" attitude. It shows how good Jobs is at sophistry. I don't need to be able to build cars to recognize that something's wrong with mine. I also don't need to be an entrepreneur or an executive to spot one company trying to muscle another out of a market. So much about criticizing other people's work and belittling their motivations.

lionhearted 16y ago
> I don't need to be able to build cars to recognize that something's wrong with mine. I also don't need to be an entrepreneur or an executive to spot one company trying to muscle another out of a market. So much about criticizing other people's work and belittling their motivations. Actually, I disagree. I think you run the risk of missing important details if you're doing an untrained analysis. For instance, a layman might say - "Look how busy Amazon.com is - it could be so prettier with a more minimalistic interface!" They might not realize that Amazon are fanatical about split testing to get things to a minute detail. Amazon is a busy site, but it does what it's trying to do remarkably well. Someone untrained in web design could say "I don't need to be a web designer to spot an ugly website that's too busy." But they'd be looking at it entirely the wrong way.
- CodeMage 16y ago
  Not being trained in something will certainly prevent you from giving an expert opinion on it, but that's not what I was saying. Someone untrained in web design could also say "I don't like Amazon's look", just like someone who has no idea about why Flash is not allowed on iPad would notice that his favorite casual web game portal is not working on his iPad. Or, to use my simple example, if I don't know jack about car engines (and I don't), I can still tell that somethings wrong if the engine sounds 10x louder than usually or if there's a funny smell coming out from under the hood. There's more than a single step from that to telling my mechanic that "my conbobatron is confusticated".
boredguy8 16y ago
Oh yeah, the doublespeak is definitely grand, too. But Tate's rambling responses fall short in comparison to Jobs' eloquence. Look: most people want something mostly simple and mostly worry-free and mostly nice-looking. Apple thinks the best way to deliver that is to present apps using their approach. The increased competition they face means their ideas are being tested, and we'll find out who wins. For instance, the iPhone OS fragmentation is an additional hit to what had been a very clean development space. That, the closed approach to app approval, and other constraints make it less attractive to develop in that space. But ultimately, saying, "I don't like how you run your app store" is all fine and good: don't develop there. But absent an equally successful alternative, it's a bit early to call the game against Apple.

lionhearted 16y ago

> I don't need to be able to build cars to recognize that something's wrong with mine. I also don't need to be an entrepreneur or an executive to spot one company trying to muscle another out of a market. So much about criticizing other people's work and belittling their motivations. Actually, I disagree. I think you run the risk of missing important details if you're doing an untrained analysis. For instance, a layman might say - "Look how busy Amazon.com is - it could be so prettier with a more minimalistic interface!" They might not realize that Amazon are fanatical about split testing to get things to a minute detail. Amazon is a busy site, but it does what it's trying to do remarkably well. Someone untrained in web design could say "I don't need to be a web designer to spot an ugly website that's too busy." But they'd be looking at it entirely the wrong way.

CodeMage 16y ago
Not being trained in something will certainly prevent you from giving an expert opinion on it, but that's not what I was saying. Someone untrained in web design could also say "I don't like Amazon's look", just like someone who has no idea about why Flash is not allowed on iPad would notice that his favorite casual web game portal is not working on his iPad. Or, to use my simple example, if I don't know jack about car engines (and I don't), I can still tell that somethings wrong if the engine sounds 10x louder than usually or if there's a funny smell coming out from under the hood. There's more than a single step from that to telling my mechanic that "my conbobatron is confusticated".

boredguy8 16y ago

Oh yeah, the doublespeak is definitely grand, too. But Tate's rambling responses fall short in comparison to Jobs' eloquence. Look: most people want something mostly simple and mostly worry-free and mostly nice-looking. Apple thinks the best way to deliver that is to present apps using their approach. The increased competition they face means their ideas are being tested, and we'll find out who wins. For instance, the iPhone OS fragmentation is an additional hit to what had been a very clean development space. That, the closed approach to app approval, and other constraints make it less attractive to develop in that space. But ultimately, saying, "I don't like how you run your app store" is all fine and good: don't develop there. But absent an equally successful alternative, it's a bit early to call the game against Apple.