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As was pointed out the last couple times this article was posted, this is an ad hominem fallacy. Criticism should be judged on its merit, not based on ones opi

by jraines 16y ago

As was pointed out the last couple times this article was posted, this is an ad hominem fallacy. Criticism should be judged on its merit, not based on ones opinion of critics. Jose Canseco is completely nuts and an asshole to boot (go check his Twitter feed for a few minutes of fun), but that doesn't mean his claims about the steroid era in baseball are meritless.

lionhearted 16y ago
> As was pointed out the last couple times this article was posted, this is an ad hominem fallacy. Not ad hominem - it was a "by the way..." in a private email after a long exchange explaining his motivations and position first. And I think it's a fair criticism - I believe in looking at the messenger as well as the message. It probably should be 95% message and 5% messenger, but you ought to take criticism a lot seriously from people who are out doing important stuff in your field, and slightly less seriously from people who never have. So I wouldn't call it ad hominem. It is quite blunt, though. I don't know, I'm not normally a Steve Jobs fan, but I liked that quote myself.
- jraines 16y ago
  Ad hominem doesn't mean "a public attack". It simply means arguing that a point is invalid/less valid because of who is making it. Or as Wikipedia says: "attempt to persuade which links the validity of a premise to a characteristic or belief of the person advocating the premise." -- in this case, the characteristic is "has not done something great in the eyes of Jobs".
boredguy8 16y ago
Well, first, most of the ranting on both sides is specious and fallacious. One of the lines in all this grandstanding, though, is pretty funny. This isn't dialectical interrogation of Truth going on here. Second, it's not fallacious if the point of the discussion is to explore what makes success. The criticism is, "You're not a revolution." Jobs' point is: OK, so show me what is. Lastly, to the extend this is a debate, Jobs beasted him on that question: Apple created app warehousing that seems to work. Having seen the collapse of such models in the past, and seeing so many people scramble to get on the gravy-train, I'd say the shift is pretty revolutionary.
- jraines 16y ago
  Pointing out a logical fallacy that, when used by an accomplished person against a critic who is not accomplished in the same field, is quite heavy handed, does not mean I'm engaged in "a dialectical interrogation of Truth".

by jraines 16y ago

lionhearted 16y ago

> As was pointed out the last couple times this article was posted, this is an ad hominem fallacy. Not ad hominem - it was a "by the way..." in a private email after a long exchange explaining his motivations and position first. And I think it's a fair criticism - I believe in looking at the messenger as well as the message. It probably should be 95% message and 5% messenger, but you ought to take criticism a lot seriously from people who are out doing important stuff in your field, and slightly less seriously from people who never have. So I wouldn't call it ad hominem. It is quite blunt, though. I don't know, I'm not normally a Steve Jobs fan, but I liked that quote myself.

jraines 16y ago
Ad hominem doesn't mean "a public attack". It simply means arguing that a point is invalid/less valid because of who is making it. Or as Wikipedia says: "attempt to persuade which links the validity of a premise to a characteristic or belief of the person advocating the premise." -- in this case, the characteristic is "has not done something great in the eyes of Jobs".

boredguy8 16y ago

Well, first, most of the ranting on both sides is specious and fallacious. One of the lines in all this grandstanding, though, is pretty funny. This isn't dialectical interrogation of Truth going on here. Second, it's not fallacious if the point of the discussion is to explore what makes success. The criticism is, "You're not a revolution." Jobs' point is: OK, so show me what is. Lastly, to the extend this is a debate, Jobs beasted him on that question: Apple created app warehousing that seems to work. Having seen the collapse of such models in the past, and seeing so many people scramble to get on the gravy-train, I'd say the shift is pretty revolutionary.

jraines 16y ago
Pointing out a logical fallacy that, when used by an accomplished person against a critic who is not accomplished in the same field, is quite heavy handed, does not mean I'm engaged in "a dialectical interrogation of Truth".