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This American Life had a funny anecdote illustrating the opposite extreme where a woman who doesn't quite understand the meaning of "summer camp" leaves her kid

by kqr2 10y ago

This American Life had a funny anecdote illustrating the opposite extreme where a woman who doesn't quite understand the meaning of "summer camp" leaves her kids at a campground by themselves for a week. My mother emigrated to the United States from Germany in the '50s. And her understanding of American culture and traditions wasn't always quite clear. And one of her confusions was about summer camp. She knew that kids should go to summer camp, but she didn't realize that it usually involved 24 hour adult supervision. So one week she drove us up to a campground on the coast of Malibu and set us up in this tent, and left us some groceries, and then she drove home to go back to work. https://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/109/transcript https://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/109/...

ma2rten 10y ago
I feel like this more than a cultural misunderstanding. It would not be considered normal or acceptable to leave your children alone for so long in Germany either.
- kuschku 10y ago
  Well, a day or two would be normal if the environment is trustworthy – such as a known campsite – but not otherwise. I’ve also met two people who went on vacation (to another country!) on their own with 14 and 16yo, and no one seemed to consider that weird either. But yeah, even in Germany leaving 10-12yos alone for a week would be unusual in the post-1960 world.
- zik 10y ago
  Misunderstanding or not I think that as a kid I would have thought it was a pretty awesome experience!
- cperciva 10y ago
  It's a cultural misunderstanding, but not the sort you're thinking of. The mother in question wasn't following the culture she grew up in; rather, she was trying to follow the culture she had moved into, but failed in a hilarious way due to her misunderstanding of American culture.
  - mseebach 10y ago
    But the more important point: She may have been baffled, but she was obviously not terribly concerned by the level of danger she was exposing her kids to.
    - cperciva 10y ago
      Social proof matters. If everybody else is leaving their kids alone for a week, clearly it's not as unsafe as it sounds. (And as with raising funding from VCs, social proof depends on whether they think other VCs are investing, not on whether other VCs actually are.)
- tqkxzugoaupvwqr 10y ago
  I actually share the same understanding of summer camp as the woman (I’m from Germany). For me, summer camp means I pay for the stay of my children, drop off my children and leave because there are employees that take care of all the children in the camp. I would also not expect a 1:1 care, just enough employees to take care of the children. Of those employees I would expect many to be just around 18–21 years of age because it is common summer job for students.
  - erroneousfunk 10y ago
    There's a difference between camps with employees around to supervise children (a "summer camp") and camps where a family might go by themselves with just a tent and a van and stay for a weekend. Campsites for families/adults might have just a single park ranger there 8 hours a day, or no supervision at all. They usually provide a cleared area in the woods for a car and a tent, a water spigot, maybe an electricity hookup, a fire pit in the middle of a clearing, but that's about it. They're often located in more scenic campgrounds for people who don't like to hike, but want to be out in the wilderness, build a fire, cook food outdoors, and sleep in a tent. The woman from Germany left her kids at a campsite/clearing in the woods, with no supervision -- not a summer camp designed for children, with adults (or, at least, college students) providing some type of supervision.
- chopin 10y ago
  My Mom exactly this in '76 in Germany, for two or three weeks as I recall. She looked after me and my brother once or twice a week. It was at least a 3/4h drive from our home. No one gave a blink. It was a valuable experience for us. What could possibly go wrong? There where lots of adults in the camp. The camp supervisor had a landline phone so in case something severely happened he could have called home or an emergency. I think our cognitive ability for risk management for abstract risks is pretty poor. The foreigner kids predator is a black swan event. It's much more risk for kids to be harmed by someone he knows.

by kqr2 10y ago

ma2rten 10y ago

I feel like this more than a cultural misunderstanding. It would not be considered normal or acceptable to leave your children alone for so long in Germany either.

kuschku 10y ago
Well, a day or two would be normal if the environment is trustworthy – such as a known campsite – but not otherwise. I’ve also met two people who went on vacation (to another country!) on their own with 14 and 16yo, and no one seemed to consider that weird either. But yeah, even in Germany leaving 10-12yos alone for a week would be unusual in the post-1960 world.
zik 10y ago
Misunderstanding or not I think that as a kid I would have thought it was a pretty awesome experience!
cperciva 10y ago
It's a cultural misunderstanding, but not the sort you're thinking of. The mother in question wasn't following the culture she grew up in; rather, she was trying to follow the culture she had moved into, but failed in a hilarious way due to her misunderstanding of American culture.
- mseebach 10y ago
  But the more important point: She may have been baffled, but she was obviously not terribly concerned by the level of danger she was exposing her kids to.
  - cperciva 10y ago
    Social proof matters. If everybody else is leaving their kids alone for a week, clearly it's not as unsafe as it sounds. (And as with raising funding from VCs, social proof depends on whether they think other VCs are investing, not on whether other VCs actually are.)
tqkxzugoaupvwqr 10y ago
I actually share the same understanding of summer camp as the woman (I’m from Germany). For me, summer camp means I pay for the stay of my children, drop off my children and leave because there are employees that take care of all the children in the camp. I would also not expect a 1:1 care, just enough employees to take care of the children. Of those employees I would expect many to be just around 18–21 years of age because it is common summer job for students.
- erroneousfunk 10y ago
  There's a difference between camps with employees around to supervise children (a "summer camp") and camps where a family might go by themselves with just a tent and a van and stay for a weekend. Campsites for families/adults might have just a single park ranger there 8 hours a day, or no supervision at all. They usually provide a cleared area in the woods for a car and a tent, a water spigot, maybe an electricity hookup, a fire pit in the middle of a clearing, but that's about it. They're often located in more scenic campgrounds for people who don't like to hike, but want to be out in the wilderness, build a fire, cook food outdoors, and sleep in a tent. The woman from Germany left her kids at a campsite/clearing in the woods, with no supervision -- not a summer camp designed for children, with adults (or, at least, college students) providing some type of supervision.
chopin 10y ago
My Mom exactly this in '76 in Germany, for two or three weeks as I recall. She looked after me and my brother once or twice a week. It was at least a 3/4h drive from our home. No one gave a blink. It was a valuable experience for us. What could possibly go wrong? There where lots of adults in the camp. The camp supervisor had a landline phone so in case something severely happened he could have called home or an emergency. I think our cognitive ability for risk management for abstract risks is pretty poor. The foreigner kids predator is a black swan event. It's much more risk for kids to be harmed by someone he knows.