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This really has to be put in perspective. You never saw Ford or GM campaign against the Iraq War. You never saw Wall Street criticize the Patriot Act. Some pe

This really has to be put in perspective. You never saw Ford or GM campaign against the Iraq War. You never saw Wall Street criticize the Patriot Act. Some people call this activism, others would call it hysteria. Case in point: many people, mostly in the Silicon Valley subculture, are calling Trump an actual fascist, and saying that any CEO collaborating with him is just as evil as him. Textbook definition of hysteria. The grassroots left has been revitalized, but most Americans don't care much about Trump either way. Now that's the big picture. Of course, immigration matters to people, and, in a minor way, to Silicon Valley. But discourse has become so tinged with emotion that corporations staying mum is now seen as evil, rather than business as usual. This mob-mentality may be productive now, but isn't an entirely positive development.

TillE 10y ago
> the many people calling Trump an actual fascist The Holocaust statement, which was pitch-perfect Holocaust denial of the modern weaselly style, should genuinely terrify everyone. People are still desperately trying to act like everything is basically normal when it's incredibly not. Every idea you had about political engagement and norms, throw it in the garbage and start from scratch.
- woofyman 10y ago
  That was obscene. It's sadly true that the nazis committed acts of genocide against many peoples. The holocaust specifically refers to the genocide of Jews specifically.
  - pavel_lishin 10y ago
    I thought that it specifically referred to the industrial murder of the Nazi regime, although mostly of Jews, but also of gypsies, and other people deemed "undesirables" by the state.
    - woofyman 10y ago
      That's not true. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust He "all lives mattered" the holocaust and white nationalists celebrated.
      - flukus 10y ago
        Did you read the link? The first paragraph says: > Some definitions of the Holocaust include the additional five million non-Jewish victims of Nazi mass murders, bringing the total to about 11 million
- concinds 10y ago
  I'm anti-Trump, and think the activism against his admin is justified. But consider these two points: 1) After Trump, will the mob go away? It may be justified here, but crowds are rarely rational, and when they are, not for long. 2) Again, there's this new, distinct idea that any tech company that does not strongly oppose Trump is just as evil as Hitler. You see mobs forming against Musk and the Uber CEO, when in my opinion all the Uber CEO did wrong was make PR mistakes, rather than harming anyone. Remember when, after Kalanick defended himself by citing the others who were cooperating with Trump (Musk and the others), thousands on Twitter were calling him a "snitch", in the top trending hashtag? When it was obviously publicly-available info that Musk et al were part of Trump's council?
- flukus 10y ago
  > “It is with a heavy heart and somber mind that we remember and honor the victims, survivors, heroes of the Holocaust. It is impossible to fully fathom the depravity and horror inflicted on innocent people by Nazi terror.” > “Yet, we know that in the darkest hours of humanity, light shines the brightest.‎ As we remember those who died, we are deeply grateful to those who risked their lives to save the innocent,” he continued, again referring only to “the innocent.” > “In the name of the perished, I pledge to do everything in my power throughout my Presidency, and my life, to ensure that the forces of evil never again defeat the powers of good,” he concluded. “Together, we will make love and tolerance prevalent throughout the world.” Is this the statement? How on earth do you get holocaust denial out of this? This is what OP meant by hysteria.
devoply 10y ago
I don't think I agree with your sentiment. It's not hysteria. It's just waking up slightly from your slumber. American politics is in dire need of course correction and has been for some time. The way it is going sooner or later the masses will elect an actual dictator to run the country, because the various chilling effects on activism and the lack of reform and looking out for the needs of the public. If anything the hysteria against Trump is a warning sign. As was electing Trump in the first place. It means politics is not working, and course correction in politics is not working as well.
- hoorayimhelping 10y ago
  >I don't think I agree with your sentiment. It's not hysteria. It's just waking up slightly from your slumber. Waking up from a slumber and then panicking and launching protests about most of the things you see sounds a bit like hysteria to me. The world turned before you woke up, it'll turn after you go to sleep. >If anything the hysteria against Trump is a warning sign I would tend to believe you if the country hadn't been gripped in a similar hysteria a few years ago under George W. Bush's presidency. Seems many people on the left were convinced he was going to declare martial law and that Cheney was his vice president as insurance against assassination. People said the same things they say now, like how a racist, or a fascist, or an actual Nazi is now in the White House. It was hysterical then, it's hysterical now. The problem with the hysteria is that when there's actually a threat, no one will listen because every time a Republican gets elected, anyone who leans a little bit liberal starts shouting "Nazi," and people are sick of it.
guelo 10y ago
I don't see why you get to define the widespread civic unrest as hysteria. There have now been two consecutive weekends of thousands of normal people mobilizing mass protests. What is the difference between people legitimately concerned and hysteria?
- ajkjk 10y ago
  You've identified the point of the phrasing "Some people call this activism, others would call it hysteria.".
- dragonwriter 10y ago
  > What is the difference between people legitimately concerned and hysteria? Whether or not the person making the characterization agrees with the people in question, mostly.
  - concinds 10y ago
    Disagree, see my reply above. Every movement has both. Every movement has an ebb and flow. They become stronger and weaker. But keep in mind that when empowering the rational activists, you are by necessity also empowering the shrill mob. I want people to be mindful of this. Have convictions, but breathe, meditate, do whatever you need. If you feel angry, let yourself be, but then let the anger and everything else go, and rely only on your principles. No emotions.
- concinds 10y ago
  In any protest, you'll probably have 80% of people protesting because they're too emotionally invested in something (admittedly that's subjective), and 20% protesting because they thought things through, and made a rational decision. This isn't specific to any political movement or ideology. If you want to check, go to an anti-Trump protest wearing a Trump hat (or an Occupy Wall Street protest when you're the top 1%). Some will directly assault you or steal the hat, some will yell obscenities, and a minority will actually talk with you calmly and see if they can change your mind. This doesn't make their aims less legitimate, since it's a characteristic of any mass movement, but you can't brush it away. We're in an era where Twitter mobs can make stocks drop and get people fired.
analog31 10y ago
Use of terms like "hysteria" and "freaking out" to dismiss the opposition is itself just a political tactic.
dave_sullivan 10y ago
> many people, mostly in the Silicon Valley subculture, are calling Trump an actual fascist, and saying that any CEO collaborating with him is just as evil as him I mean... how is Trump not an actual fascist? What definition of fascism does Trump not embody? I'm being serious--if he could actually wave a magic wand and create the government/world he wanted, how would this government not be a fascist government? Consider this: Why are Hitler and Mussolini fascists, but not all dictators are fascists? That's the definition of fascism. Now please tell me how that doesn't fit the definition of the government Trump wants? As far as CEO's collaborating with him being evil... Yeah, I would say working for the Trump administration at this point is basically like working with fascists in the 30s. Lots of people did. Many of those companies are still around. People are people. But they're--rightly--not congratulated by history for it. In fact, mostly history says, "They should have taken it more seriously at the time when they had the chance." This is one of those cases where if you're not a fan of fascism, you should be fighting Trump every chance you get. It's not hysteria at all; calling it hysteria is in fact (mostly effective) propaganda.
- dudul 10y ago
  how is Trump an actual fascist? What definition of fascism does Trump embody? I'm being serious.
  - dave_sullivan 10y ago
    an authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization.
    - concinds 10y ago
      That would also include George W. Bush. Consider this, written by a prominent geopolitical expert: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/george-friedman/nationalism-is-rising-not_b_10281138.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/george-friedman/nationalism-is...
      - 10y ago

TillE 10y ago

> the many people calling Trump an actual fascist The Holocaust statement, which was pitch-perfect Holocaust denial of the modern weaselly style, should genuinely terrify everyone. People are still desperately trying to act like everything is basically normal when it's incredibly not. Every idea you had about political engagement and norms, throw it in the garbage and start from scratch.

woofyman 10y ago
That was obscene. It's sadly true that the nazis committed acts of genocide against many peoples. The holocaust specifically refers to the genocide of Jews specifically.
- pavel_lishin 10y ago
  I thought that it specifically referred to the industrial murder of the Nazi regime, although mostly of Jews, but also of gypsies, and other people deemed "undesirables" by the state.
  - woofyman 10y ago
    That's not true. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust He "all lives mattered" the holocaust and white nationalists celebrated.
    - flukus 10y ago
      Did you read the link? The first paragraph says: > Some definitions of the Holocaust include the additional five million non-Jewish victims of Nazi mass murders, bringing the total to about 11 million
concinds 10y ago
I'm anti-Trump, and think the activism against his admin is justified. But consider these two points: 1) After Trump, will the mob go away? It may be justified here, but crowds are rarely rational, and when they are, not for long. 2) Again, there's this new, distinct idea that any tech company that does not strongly oppose Trump is just as evil as Hitler. You see mobs forming against Musk and the Uber CEO, when in my opinion all the Uber CEO did wrong was make PR mistakes, rather than harming anyone. Remember when, after Kalanick defended himself by citing the others who were cooperating with Trump (Musk and the others), thousands on Twitter were calling him a "snitch", in the top trending hashtag? When it was obviously publicly-available info that Musk et al were part of Trump's council?
flukus 10y ago
> “It is with a heavy heart and somber mind that we remember and honor the victims, survivors, heroes of the Holocaust. It is impossible to fully fathom the depravity and horror inflicted on innocent people by Nazi terror.” > “Yet, we know that in the darkest hours of humanity, light shines the brightest.‎ As we remember those who died, we are deeply grateful to those who risked their lives to save the innocent,” he continued, again referring only to “the innocent.” > “In the name of the perished, I pledge to do everything in my power throughout my Presidency, and my life, to ensure that the forces of evil never again defeat the powers of good,” he concluded. “Together, we will make love and tolerance prevalent throughout the world.” Is this the statement? How on earth do you get holocaust denial out of this? This is what OP meant by hysteria.

devoply 10y ago

I don't think I agree with your sentiment. It's not hysteria. It's just waking up slightly from your slumber. American politics is in dire need of course correction and has been for some time. The way it is going sooner or later the masses will elect an actual dictator to run the country, because the various chilling effects on activism and the lack of reform and looking out for the needs of the public. If anything the hysteria against Trump is a warning sign. As was electing Trump in the first place. It means politics is not working, and course correction in politics is not working as well.

hoorayimhelping 10y ago
>I don't think I agree with your sentiment. It's not hysteria. It's just waking up slightly from your slumber. Waking up from a slumber and then panicking and launching protests about most of the things you see sounds a bit like hysteria to me. The world turned before you woke up, it'll turn after you go to sleep. >If anything the hysteria against Trump is a warning sign I would tend to believe you if the country hadn't been gripped in a similar hysteria a few years ago under George W. Bush's presidency. Seems many people on the left were convinced he was going to declare martial law and that Cheney was his vice president as insurance against assassination. People said the same things they say now, like how a racist, or a fascist, or an actual Nazi is now in the White House. It was hysterical then, it's hysterical now. The problem with the hysteria is that when there's actually a threat, no one will listen because every time a Republican gets elected, anyone who leans a little bit liberal starts shouting "Nazi," and people are sick of it.

guelo 10y ago

I don't see why you get to define the widespread civic unrest as hysteria. There have now been two consecutive weekends of thousands of normal people mobilizing mass protests. What is the difference between people legitimately concerned and hysteria?

ajkjk 10y ago
You've identified the point of the phrasing "Some people call this activism, others would call it hysteria.".
dragonwriter 10y ago
> What is the difference between people legitimately concerned and hysteria? Whether or not the person making the characterization agrees with the people in question, mostly.
- concinds 10y ago
  Disagree, see my reply above. Every movement has both. Every movement has an ebb and flow. They become stronger and weaker. But keep in mind that when empowering the rational activists, you are by necessity also empowering the shrill mob. I want people to be mindful of this. Have convictions, but breathe, meditate, do whatever you need. If you feel angry, let yourself be, but then let the anger and everything else go, and rely only on your principles. No emotions.
concinds 10y ago
In any protest, you'll probably have 80% of people protesting because they're too emotionally invested in something (admittedly that's subjective), and 20% protesting because they thought things through, and made a rational decision. This isn't specific to any political movement or ideology. If you want to check, go to an anti-Trump protest wearing a Trump hat (or an Occupy Wall Street protest when you're the top 1%). Some will directly assault you or steal the hat, some will yell obscenities, and a minority will actually talk with you calmly and see if they can change your mind. This doesn't make their aims less legitimate, since it's a characteristic of any mass movement, but you can't brush it away. We're in an era where Twitter mobs can make stocks drop and get people fired.

analog31 10y ago

Use of terms like "hysteria" and "freaking out" to dismiss the opposition is itself just a political tactic.

dave_sullivan 10y ago

> many people, mostly in the Silicon Valley subculture, are calling Trump an actual fascist, and saying that any CEO collaborating with him is just as evil as him I mean... how is Trump not an actual fascist? What definition of fascism does Trump not embody? I'm being serious--if he could actually wave a magic wand and create the government/world he wanted, how would this government not be a fascist government? Consider this: Why are Hitler and Mussolini fascists, but not all dictators are fascists? That's the definition of fascism. Now please tell me how that doesn't fit the definition of the government Trump wants? As far as CEO's collaborating with him being evil... Yeah, I would say working for the Trump administration at this point is basically like working with fascists in the 30s. Lots of people did. Many of those companies are still around. People are people. But they're--rightly--not congratulated by history for it. In fact, mostly history says, "They should have taken it more seriously at the time when they had the chance." This is one of those cases where if you're not a fan of fascism, you should be fighting Trump every chance you get. It's not hysteria at all; calling it hysteria is in fact (mostly effective) propaganda.

dudul 10y ago
how is Trump an actual fascist? What definition of fascism does Trump embody? I'm being serious.
- dave_sullivan 10y ago
  an authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization.
  - concinds 10y ago
    That would also include George W. Bush. Consider this, written by a prominent geopolitical expert: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/george-friedman/nationalism-is-rising-not_b_10281138.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/george-friedman/nationalism-is...
    - 10y ago