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As a born NZ citizen as well, are you serious? More rich people that are - generally speaking - racist, sexist, anti-democracy and have tendencies to sue news o

by owenwil 10y ago

As a born NZ citizen as well, are you serious? More rich people that are - generally speaking - racist, sexist, anti-democracy and have tendencies to sue news organizations into the ground while calling it "charity"? He can ultimately do what he wants, but I don't think we need more of these types of people.

yummyfajitas 10y ago
What makes you believe Thiel is racist or sexist? Also, the idea of rich people/foundations/etc supporting lawsuits for ideological reasons is hardly new. Do you similarly oppose the Southern Poverty Law Center, who successfully filed (valid) lawsuits against the Aryan Nations with the goal of shutting them down? Or the Conservation Law Foundation, and all their donors? https://www.splcenter.org/seeking-justice/case-docket/keenan-v-aryan-nations https://www.splcenter.org/seeking-justice/case-docket/keenan... http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/exxonmobil-lawsuit-conservation-law-foundation-climate-change_us_57ec1512e4b024a52d2c5ae5 http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/exxonmobil-lawsuit-conse...
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- owenwil 10y ago
  It's good to see HN's "whataboutism" is alive and well https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism
  - yummyfajitas 10y ago
    Whataboutism is a perfectly valid argumentation technique. If you argue against person X for doing Z, but not against person Y who does the same thing, it suggests you might actually just have a grudge against X. I'm asking whether you actually object to funding valid lawsuits against people due to speech you object to, or whether that's simply a cheap attack line.
- GFK_of_xmaspast 10y ago
  http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/peter-thiel-women-democracy_us_5747079be4b03ede4413f6f5 http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/peter-thiel-women-democr...
  - yummyfajitas 10y ago
    What exactly in this article do you believe is racist or sexist? From what I can tell, Thiel made one factual statement - that women (and welfare beneficiaries) vote for policies he considers harmful. Do you think that factual statement is wrong? If I made a similar factual statement - say "white people were more likely to support Trump" - does that imply I'm biased against white people?
xupybd 10y ago
I agree that we don't want more racist, sexist and anti-democracy people here. I don't believe Thiel is. But rich people I have nothing against, I welcome wealth coming into the country. And suing a private company, well let the case stand on its merits, I don't take issue with that.
- owenwil 10y ago
  Peter Thiel openly wrote that he thought it might have been better for democracy if women didn't vote. I don't think that's a great place to start.
  - strken 10y ago
    If we're talking about the same piece, what he wrote is more nuanced: Since 1920, the vast increase in welfare beneficiaries and the extension of the franchise to women — two constituencies that are notoriously tough for libertarians — have rendered the notion of “capitalist democracy” into an oxymoron.[0] This seems similar to the claim "if white people didn't vote, Trump would have lost in a landslide", which almost nobody takes to mean white people shouldn't vote. [0] https://www.cato-unbound.org/2009/04/13/peter-thiel/education-libertarian https://www.cato-unbound.org/2009/04/13/peter-thiel/educatio...
  - defen 10y ago
    No, he wrote: > Since 1920 the vast increase in welfare beneficiaries and the extension of the franchise to women — two constituencies that are notoriously tough for libertarians — have rendered the notion of “capitalist democracy” into an oxymoron. If you read the original essay[1] you will see that he is making a descriptive and not a proscriptive point. He is not saying "we should not let women vote, because then we could have capitalist democracy". He is saying "women are not attracted to libertarian politics, and they have the franchise, therefore capitalist democracy is not going to happen. Therefore, we should go beyond politics to make it happen". He suggests three ways of making it happen: Cyberspace, outerspace, seasteading. [1] https://www.cato-unbound.org/2009/04/13/peter-thiel/education-libertarian https://www.cato-unbound.org/2009/04/13/peter-thiel/educatio...
- deleted 10y ago

by owenwil 10y ago

yummyfajitas 10y ago

What makes you believe Thiel is racist or sexist? Also, the idea of rich people/foundations/etc supporting lawsuits for ideological reasons is hardly new. Do you similarly oppose the Southern Poverty Law Center, who successfully filed (valid) lawsuits against the Aryan Nations with the goal of shutting them down? Or the Conservation Law Foundation, and all their donors? https://www.splcenter.org/seeking-justice/case-docket/keenan-v-aryan-nations https://www.splcenter.org/seeking-justice/case-docket/keenan... http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/exxonmobil-lawsuit-conservation-law-foundation-climate-change_us_57ec1512e4b024a52d2c5ae5 http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/exxonmobil-lawsuit-conse...

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
owenwil 10y ago
It's good to see HN's "whataboutism" is alive and well https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism
- yummyfajitas 10y ago
  Whataboutism is a perfectly valid argumentation technique. If you argue against person X for doing Z, but not against person Y who does the same thing, it suggests you might actually just have a grudge against X. I'm asking whether you actually object to funding valid lawsuits against people due to speech you object to, or whether that's simply a cheap attack line.
GFK_of_xmaspast 10y ago
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/peter-thiel-women-democracy_us_5747079be4b03ede4413f6f5 http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/peter-thiel-women-democr...
- yummyfajitas 10y ago
  What exactly in this article do you believe is racist or sexist? From what I can tell, Thiel made one factual statement - that women (and welfare beneficiaries) vote for policies he considers harmful. Do you think that factual statement is wrong? If I made a similar factual statement - say "white people were more likely to support Trump" - does that imply I'm biased against white people?

xupybd 10y ago

I agree that we don't want more racist, sexist and anti-democracy people here. I don't believe Thiel is. But rich people I have nothing against, I welcome wealth coming into the country. And suing a private company, well let the case stand on its merits, I don't take issue with that.

owenwil 10y ago
Peter Thiel openly wrote that he thought it might have been better for democracy if women didn't vote. I don't think that's a great place to start.
- strken 10y ago
  If we're talking about the same piece, what he wrote is more nuanced: Since 1920, the vast increase in welfare beneficiaries and the extension of the franchise to women — two constituencies that are notoriously tough for libertarians — have rendered the notion of “capitalist democracy” into an oxymoron.[0] This seems similar to the claim "if white people didn't vote, Trump would have lost in a landslide", which almost nobody takes to mean white people shouldn't vote. [0] https://www.cato-unbound.org/2009/04/13/peter-thiel/education-libertarian https://www.cato-unbound.org/2009/04/13/peter-thiel/educatio...
- defen 10y ago
  No, he wrote: > Since 1920 the vast increase in welfare beneficiaries and the extension of the franchise to women — two constituencies that are notoriously tough for libertarians — have rendered the notion of “capitalist democracy” into an oxymoron. If you read the original essay[1] you will see that he is making a descriptive and not a proscriptive point. He is not saying "we should not let women vote, because then we could have capitalist democracy". He is saying "women are not attracted to libertarian politics, and they have the franchise, therefore capitalist democracy is not going to happen. Therefore, we should go beyond politics to make it happen". He suggests three ways of making it happen: Cyberspace, outerspace, seasteading. [1] https://www.cato-unbound.org/2009/04/13/peter-thiel/education-libertarian https://www.cato-unbound.org/2009/04/13/peter-thiel/educatio...
deleted 10y ago