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Peter Thiel bought his NZ citizenship, documents show
- streetwiseherc 10y agoIs there a HN, that's not affiliated with this muttonhead? I love the content here, but I feel gross coming here knowing it's affiliated with such a sleazy billionaire.
- tannhauser23 10y agoWho cares?
- freehunter 10y agoI agree. If NZ let him buy his way to citizenship, then what's the problem? He didn't break any laws, he followed the rules, and he got his citizenship legally. What's the story here?
- kennywinker 10y agoWe like to think we live in a world with one set of rules. But of course we live in a world with multiple sets of rules, one for if you're a billionaire, one for if you're a racial minority, one for...
- JumpCrisscross 10y ago> We like to think we live in a world with one set of rules Different people, and hence different societies, have different values. These values, which vary over time, give rise to systems of laws. I wouldn't want to be bound by a different culture's system of values. On the topic at hand, most countries have an "investor visa" [1] or "extraordinary person" exception [2]. Even some EU countries grant citizenship in exchange for investment [3]. Economic prerogatives matter. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EB-5_visa https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EB-5_visa [2] https://www.uscis.gov/working-united-states/temporary-workers/o-1-visa-individuals-extraordinary-ability-or-achievement https://www.uscis.gov/working-united-states/temporary-worker... [3] https://www.ccmalta.com/publications/malta-citizenship-investment https://www.ccmalta.com/publications/malta-citizenship-inves...
- kennywinker 10y agoSorry if I wasn't clear. I guess I wasn't talking about different laws or mores in different countries. I was talking about the same country with different rules depending on who you are.
- owenwil 10y agoIt isn't legal - he was granted an exception to the rules after being denied because he had a change of heart and donated $700m - for the first time ever - to the disaster fund, then applied again immediately. In NZ you must actually live there to gain citizenship, even if you pay.
- JumpCrisscross 10y ago> It isn't legal It appears the Internal Affairs Department may legally approve citizenship under "exceptional circumstances". And he is not alone: "one to two dozen [applicants] a year...are approved for citizenship by the minister of internal affairs under 'exceptional' circumstances" [1]. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/01/business/peter-thiel-new-zealand-citizenship.html?em_pos=small&emc=edit_dk_20170201&nl=dealbook&nl_art=20&nlid=65508833&ref=headline&te=1 https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/01/business/peter-thiel-new-...
- owenwil 10y agoYes! James Cameron got one of those - but they forced him and his family to live in the country for five years first! Odd.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- conistonwater 10y agoEven if technically legal, that's still really quite dodgy.
- JumpCrisscross 10y agoI agree. But the proper response shouldn't be "that's illegal," but instead, that the interior minister should be stripped of that power.
- strken 10y agoWhy? That minister got the NZ public $700m USD in disaster relief in an exchange that cost them virtually nothing. If anything he should be given an award for outstanding excellence in the field of defrauding rich yanks. EDIT: 700k, not 700m. Still, not a bad deal.
- kafkaesq 10y ago"Different rules for very, very rich" is the basic theme. If that's the world you want to live in, then yeah, I guess there's no story here.
- gramstrong 10y agoInsightful comment. Why don't you start with telling us why you don't care?
- _tulpa 10y agoPeople who don't want American politics leaking into NZ any more than it already does... Here's one thing he can do now: http://www.elections.org.nz/parties-candidates/registered-political-parties/party-donations/about-annual-returns-party-donatio-2 http://www.elections.org.nz/parties-candidates/registered-po...
- toomanybeersies 10y agoWell the population of New Zealand, for one.
- elastic_church 10y agolol, that oath though! Doesn't matter, still rich. Everyone aspires to have that flexibility when they find out about it and see it within their grasp. And its great - for the individual - how the rules disappear.
- FabHK 10y agoThe oath appears funny, in modern times. Are you familiar with the US naturalisation oath? It goes like this: "I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty, of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the Armed Forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God." https://www.uscis.gov/us-citizenship/naturalization-test/naturalization-oath-allegiance-united-states-america https://www.uscis.gov/us-citizenship/naturalization-test/nat...
- xupybd 10y agoAs a born NZ citizen I welcome people like Thiel. He may have bought his citizenship, but we could do with more like him.
- owenwil 10y agoAs a born NZ citizen as well, are you serious? More rich people that are - generally speaking - racist, sexist, anti-democracy and have tendencies to sue news organizations into the ground while calling it "charity"? He can ultimately do what he wants, but I don't think we need more of these types of people.
- yummyfajitas 10y agoWhat makes you believe Thiel is racist or sexist? Also, the idea of rich people/foundations/etc supporting lawsuits for ideological reasons is hardly new. Do you similarly oppose the Southern Poverty Law Center, who successfully filed (valid) lawsuits against the Aryan Nations with the goal of shutting them down? Or the Conservation Law Foundation, and all their donors? https://www.splcenter.org/seeking-justice/case-docket/keenan-v-aryan-nations https://www.splcenter.org/seeking-justice/case-docket/keenan... http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/exxonmobil-lawsuit-conservation-law-foundation-climate-change_us_57ec1512e4b024a52d2c5ae5 http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/exxonmobil-lawsuit-conse...
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- owenwil 10y agoIt's good to see HN's "whataboutism" is alive and well https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism
- yummyfajitas 10y agoWhataboutism is a perfectly valid argumentation technique. If you argue against person X for doing Z, but not against person Y who does the same thing, it suggests you might actually just have a grudge against X. I'm asking whether you actually object to funding valid lawsuits against people due to speech you object to, or whether that's simply a cheap attack line.
- vonnik 10y agoIt's fundamentally hypocritical of Thiel to stick America with a maniac from whom the vast majority of citizens can't escape, while he has a perfect backup plan. One of his many hypocrisies.
- throwaway4job 10y agoMy favorite Thiel hypocrisy is that he pretends to be Libertarian while building an enormous company to generate wealth for himself, by explicitly giving the state more power. That said, he'll get defended because of three things: 1) while it's gross, it's normal. Most countries let rich people buy citizenship in some form or fashion. 2) Thiel is a bully, and everybody knows it. pg and sama are so afraid of him that they pretend that a citizen asking them to criticize thiel directly is directly equivalent to the HUAC. That's absurd on it's face, but pg and sama repeat it, because they are cowards and afraid of the nasty and brutish Thiel. 3) all the dumb fuck sociopathic cunts on this site think they'll be billionaires some day; and they look forward to murdering niggers and controlling women and otherwise ruining the world. So to them, Thiel is basically a hero. They love his hypocrisy. They love that he says one thing, does another, and that even quite powerful people are afraid to admit that he's completely and totally full of shit. So yeah... it's hypocritical. But who cares. HN is run by cowards who fear Thiel's vengeance (and love his money); and it's populated with delusional losers who think they'll be Thiel.
- mixedCase 10y agoThiel had veto powers on the electoral college? Did I miss something?
- xmly 10y agoJust wonder how much to buy the NZ citizenship? So I could start saving!
- tps5 10y agoThis just feels nasty. It feels like left-leaning media outlets (note: I'm left leaning) are scraping the bottom of the barrel trying to discredit anyone who has the gall to disagree with their narrative that Trump is a disaster (note: I think Trump is a disaster, so far). I don't much care for Peter Thiel. I didn't exactly mind that he funded legal action against Gawker in itself, what bothers me there is the same thing that bothers me about this: Money should not affect the outcomes of legal actions, directly or indirectly. Similarly, money should not allow you to become a citizen of a country you've never lived in, on a whim. Sadly we're not close to removing money from the equation in either of those areas (and many more), and we probably never will be. All of that aside, Thiel's use of his money to get a leg up is a symptom of the problem, not the cause. It's one example among a sea of examples. And the only reason it's getting this level of scrutiny is because Thiel has taken "unpopular" stances.
- droopybuns 10y agoI find this kind of journalism pretty offensive. What's the public interest here? Should we expect a report on the brands of deodorant he prefers?
- pm90 10y agoDetailing the citizenship gymnastics of an individual who is for policies restricting citizenship for a certain class of people is most certainly news. It points to the hypocrisy of a world where refugees are not allowed entry while billionaires roam the world like its their private property and the same billionaires work to enact those restrictive policies.
- droopybuns 10y agoI'd love to find a path to agreeing with you, but you are indulging in hyperbole.
- pm90 10y agoSorry, can't resist sometimes...the world has become a rather strange place lately. Anyways, in less hyperbolic terms: this is news because it paints Thiel as a hypocrite for supporting an unsuitable candidate while having a "backup" in case things go south in his own country.
- kennywinker 10y agoPeter Thiel has demonstrated a willingness to use his money to influence politics in the US. If he now does the same in NZ, is that now not a "foreign influence" on their country? Just because he did some paperwork and bought himself citizenship?
- pm90 10y agoIt is clearly. That is kinda the point of the article.
- bernard_marxist 10y agoWow, Peter. Real classy. When you're not harvesting the blood of the young or scheming with tyrants, you're buying your way into a island paradise on the other side of the world, escaping the American dystopia of your own creation. Some of us aren't billionaires who can buy our way to happiness.
- josefresco 10y ago"In the first seven days after Donald Trump’s election, 13,401 Americans registered with New Zealand’s immigration authorities, the first official step toward seeking residency—more than seventeen times the usual rate. " http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/01/30/doomsday-prep-for-the-super-rich http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/01/30/doomsday-prep-f...
- outworlder 10y agoWell, today is Check your Backups day (http://checkyourbackups.work http://checkyourbackups.work). Everyone should have a backup, Peter Thiel is no exception () So what if he "bought" his citizenship? Is that illegal? If not, that "makes him smart". There are plenty of places that will grant you, if not citizenship, then permanent residency, as long as you bring in cash. Or will at least have a fast-track path. On that note, if you are young, try to get citizenship in more than one country. Or, if you have kids, do that for them. That way, you limit the amount of influence a given government can have on you. If things go south, you have a backup plan. () Disclaimer: I dislike the guy, but I feel this piece of news is weak.
- mr_spothawk 10y agoin the wake of public outrage in that country shows that Thiel would have been denied citizenship on the self- admitted fact that he has never lived in the country and has no plans to do so pieter theil bought himself a novelty post-appocalypse passport for $700m.
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- canadian_voter 10y agoNEWS FLASH: Billionaire gets what they want by spending millions of dollars I think it helps to imagine Peter Thiel as a comic book supervillain. He wants to live forever, so of course he's going to have a remote HQ to flee to in an emergency. He may or not be a bad guy, but I think it's pretty clear that he has one standard for himself and another standard for others.
- toomanybeersies 10y agoAs a New Zealand citizen who is a dual national of a country that I've never visited, I'm not necessarily opposed to non-residents becoming citizens. I am concerned though, about people who are well known for using their giant stack of cash to influence politics and legal cases being given citizenship. I do think that the outcome of the Hulk Hogan vs Gawker case was a good thing, but I don't think that Theil funding it was a good thing. Billionaires funding legal cases of unrelated people based on a personal vendetta isn't a road I want society to go down, especially such a target approach. If he was giving aid to various people suing various yellow journalism outlets for slander/libel, I'd be inclined to believe that he was being at least slightly altruistic. And then there's the amount of money he's put into politics. As far as I'm concerned, it doesn't matter if he supported Clinton, Sanders, or Trump, it's the amount of money he gave. I get the impression from the man that all he cares about is himself, and he'll just throw money at things to get what he wants.
- kapauldo 10y agoPeter Thiel is a young Mr. Burns. Young, rich, and alone.