4 ms·

I'd wonder a bit what enjoyment/passion that person gets from their work. Why can't someone just be a professional who generates value?

ryandrake 10y ago
Thank you. What's with this expectation that unless we have sweet passionate love for web portals or accounting app middleware, or whatever the product is, we won't be competent professionals?
- rpeden 10y ago
  Are you saying that you don't dream of Express middleware, and that that you don't sing songs about the joy of promises and generators? Have you not accepted Babel into your heart? To transpile or not to transpile, that is the question: Whether 'tis nobler in the open-plan office to suffer The slings and arrows of EcmaScript 5 Or to take Arms against a Sea of callbacks, And by asyncing, end them Just kidding, I'm with you. I think that enthusiasm and passion are most useful when layered on top of competent professionalism.
chias 10y ago
Because your enthusiasm is your most valuable asset. Enthused employees tend to be a lot more productive, and also drive up the morale among their peers.
- awfgylbcxhrey 10y ago
  Because your enthusiasm is your most valuable asset. Wow, no, that's not even remotely true. My years of experience and track record of delivering completed products is my most valuable asset. Enthusiasm doesn't get the job done. Enthusiasm and passion are fleeting. Honestly, I cannot express how horrified I am by your reply.
  - ryandrake 10y ago
    I've had to deal with enough code fueled by enthusiasm. I much prefer working with code fueled by best practices, focus, and competence.
  - wjamesg 10y ago
    Horrified? Lol
  - nbohra 10y ago
    Reminds me of the creative Dr. Suess poem someone came up with http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/attachments/chat-box-swamp/286d1151397691-dr-seuss-i-love-my-job-dr-suess.jpg http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/attachments/chat-box-...
  - chias 10y ago
    Sorry, I should have said: besides your competence, your enthusiasm is your most valuable asset. You have had your entire interview to demonstrate your competence. At this stage of the interview, if you have not yet demonstrated competence, no answer to this question is going to get you hired.
- travisjungroth 10y ago
  If that were true, interns would be worth $300k and 30 year experienced devs would work for free over the summer.
rpeden 10y ago
I've given co-workers a bit of push-back in the past when they've wanted to give too much weight to passion-related questions when we interviewed candidates. Not that it can't be important; it can, but the downside is that passion often evaporates when things get difficult. So I'd rather hire someone who is driven by determination and discipline, and uses passion as a nice boost when they can. It's frustrating to work with someone who gets sulky when we have to slog through the non-fun development tasks that are part of nearly every project. Yes, those parts are no fun, but the faster we buckle down and power through them, the better off we are. Interestingly, I've found that the best developers I've worked with were the stone cold professionals who just powered through everything, whether it was enjoyable or excruciating. They weren't a bunch of grumpy old farts, either. They were some of the most friendly, jovial people I've had the pleasure of working with over the years.
- emilburzo 10y ago
  True. I've seen employers describe their projects/startups and then they just wait for a reaction to gauge if it's something I would consider "fun", they seem surprised when I say I'm game for pretty much anything that solves someone's problem/has active users. I even love taking care of the un-sexy tasks that nobody else really likes/there's a fight for, especially documentation -- I've written so many internal wiki pages I'm actually kinda sorry they're all locked up behind a login screen. Any other task that sparks the brain, for whatever reason, is just a nice bonus.
HarryHirsch 10y ago
Why can't someone just be a professional who generates value? Because fit. Because duty has limits, but passion can be exploited. In the words of Leonard Cohen: "He taught that the duty of lovers / is to tarnish the golden rule."
kohanz 10y ago
Yeah, the "passion" term is a loaded one and I regret using it. I don't require someone to be "passionate" about the product we're working on to see them as a good fit. In fact, as someone who works in medical devices, when someone came in and said they really wanted meaningful work and that's why they wanted to switch to medical devices, I'd slightly roll my eyes to myself because I saw a younger version of myself in them, knowing that they would quickly realize how far-removed they and their work are from the bed-side or OR and that feelings of making a meaningful contribution are a lot more rare than they might imagine. Personally, I wouldn't ask the "why should I hire you" question, because it's a dumb question IMHO, but if I did and someone answered "Because I will make you more money than you'll pay me" and left it at that, I'd have some misgivings about that answer. It's tough for me articulate exactly why, but I just can't say I'd be thrilled with that answer. Someone who optimizes themselves for "make the company more money than I'm paid" doesn't really say much about what it's like to work with them. The statement doesn't do a good job of "selling yourself", IMHO.

ryandrake 10y ago

Thank you. What's with this expectation that unless we have sweet passionate love for web portals or accounting app middleware, or whatever the product is, we won't be competent professionals?

rpeden 10y ago
Are you saying that you don't dream of Express middleware, and that that you don't sing songs about the joy of promises and generators? Have you not accepted Babel into your heart? To transpile or not to transpile, that is the question: Whether 'tis nobler in the open-plan office to suffer The slings and arrows of EcmaScript 5 Or to take Arms against a Sea of callbacks, And by asyncing, end them Just kidding, I'm with you. I think that enthusiasm and passion are most useful when layered on top of competent professionalism.

chias 10y ago

Because your enthusiasm is your most valuable asset. Enthused employees tend to be a lot more productive, and also drive up the morale among their peers.

awfgylbcxhrey 10y ago
Because your enthusiasm is your most valuable asset. Wow, no, that's not even remotely true. My years of experience and track record of delivering completed products is my most valuable asset. Enthusiasm doesn't get the job done. Enthusiasm and passion are fleeting. Honestly, I cannot express how horrified I am by your reply.
- ryandrake 10y ago
  I've had to deal with enough code fueled by enthusiasm. I much prefer working with code fueled by best practices, focus, and competence.
- wjamesg 10y ago
  Horrified? Lol
- nbohra 10y ago
  Reminds me of the creative Dr. Suess poem someone came up with http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/attachments/chat-box-swamp/286d1151397691-dr-seuss-i-love-my-job-dr-suess.jpg http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/attachments/chat-box-...
- chias 10y ago
  Sorry, I should have said: besides your competence, your enthusiasm is your most valuable asset. You have had your entire interview to demonstrate your competence. At this stage of the interview, if you have not yet demonstrated competence, no answer to this question is going to get you hired.
travisjungroth 10y ago
If that were true, interns would be worth $300k and 30 year experienced devs would work for free over the summer.

rpeden 10y ago

I've given co-workers a bit of push-back in the past when they've wanted to give too much weight to passion-related questions when we interviewed candidates. Not that it can't be important; it can, but the downside is that passion often evaporates when things get difficult. So I'd rather hire someone who is driven by determination and discipline, and uses passion as a nice boost when they can. It's frustrating to work with someone who gets sulky when we have to slog through the non-fun development tasks that are part of nearly every project. Yes, those parts are no fun, but the faster we buckle down and power through them, the better off we are. Interestingly, I've found that the best developers I've worked with were the stone cold professionals who just powered through everything, whether it was enjoyable or excruciating. They weren't a bunch of grumpy old farts, either. They were some of the most friendly, jovial people I've had the pleasure of working with over the years.

emilburzo 10y ago
True. I've seen employers describe their projects/startups and then they just wait for a reaction to gauge if it's something I would consider "fun", they seem surprised when I say I'm game for pretty much anything that solves someone's problem/has active users. I even love taking care of the un-sexy tasks that nobody else really likes/there's a fight for, especially documentation -- I've written so many internal wiki pages I'm actually kinda sorry they're all locked up behind a login screen. Any other task that sparks the brain, for whatever reason, is just a nice bonus.

HarryHirsch 10y ago

Why can't someone just be a professional who generates value? Because fit. Because duty has limits, but passion can be exploited. In the words of Leonard Cohen: "He taught that the duty of lovers / is to tarnish the golden rule."

kohanz 10y ago

Yeah, the "passion" term is a loaded one and I regret using it. I don't require someone to be "passionate" about the product we're working on to see them as a good fit. In fact, as someone who works in medical devices, when someone came in and said they really wanted meaningful work and that's why they wanted to switch to medical devices, I'd slightly roll my eyes to myself because I saw a younger version of myself in them, knowing that they would quickly realize how far-removed they and their work are from the bed-side or OR and that feelings of making a meaningful contribution are a lot more rare than they might imagine. Personally, I wouldn't ask the "why should I hire you" question, because it's a dumb question IMHO, but if I did and someone answered "Because I will make you more money than you'll pay me" and left it at that, I'd have some misgivings about that answer. It's tough for me articulate exactly why, but I just can't say I'd be thrilled with that answer. Someone who optimizes themselves for "make the company more money than I'm paid" doesn't really say much about what it's like to work with them. The statement doesn't do a good job of "selling yourself", IMHO.