5 ms·

>What, you become the richest, most powerful country in the world? No you do that during world war by being the only country left with with virtually no damage

>What, you become the richest, most powerful country in the world? No you do that during world war by being the only country left with with virtually no damage to factories/infrastructure due to geography. You then use that to establish a global hegemony. And even then it only enriches the top of your society.

merpnderp 10y ago
Look at the US's GDP history. It started growing faster than Europe at the end of the 19th century. And you say it only enriched the top of our society? First look up what median means, then realize that the US's median income is 50% higher than Germany's. For a population several times larger and several times more diverse.
- aninhumer 10y ago
  >the US's median income is 50% higher than Germany's Source? I'm looking at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median_income https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median_income and none of the sources show a difference as high as that. Also if you look at: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_wealth_per_adult https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_wealth_pe... the US has much lower median wealth than most European economies.
  - pc86 10y ago
    I see you slipped in the word "wealth" when the GP specifically mentioned "income." Any reason for choosing one over the other?
    - aninhumer 10y ago
      I linked to wealth statistics alongside income statistics, because I think it's a relevant data point. I thought the distinction was fairly clear, but perhaps I should have emphasised it more?
      - jdmichal 10y ago
        I thought it was a good point to bring up. Comparing raw income doesn't mean anything -- you need to at least take cost of living into account. 75k is barely livable in SF, but quite comfortable in the Midwest, etc. If Germans are making less but are worth more... There's interesting things going on that probably need to be taken into consideration in such a conversation.
        merpnderp 10y ago
        PPP (Price Purchasing Parity) is the definition of cost of living adjustments. If you see PPP, then that's already been factored in as well as the science can.
        jdmichal 10y ago
        Ah, missed that on the chart. Thanks for pointing it out.
  - merpnderp 10y ago
    That was my source also and yes the actual difference is a mere 30% more - I was eyeballing it. My point wasn't to get into a pissing contest with who is richer, my point was that the US is no less equal than Germany and no one is bitching about how Germany's economy only enriches the top.
    - aninhumer 10y ago
      I also linked to statistics which show that most European countries have significantly higher median wealth than the US. (Although notably not Germany for some reason). The difference between the mean and median wealth is also notably high in the US, which suggests greater inequality.
  - aianus 10y ago
    Assets minus liabilities doesn't capture the full picture. If a poor person in the US has a $3000 car they might be poorer on paper than a middle class Singaporean who takes the bus but the latter would have to spend $100k to enjoy the same transportation lifestyle as the former. Similar for things like detached houses and takeout food which are basic in the US but luxury items in most of the rest of the world.
    - aninhumer 10y ago
      > but the latter would have to spend $100k to enjoy the same transportation lifestyle as the former. What exactly does it mean to "enjoy the same transportation lifestyle" and why would it cost them $100k? Singapore is a tiny island with fairly comprehensive public transport, and relatively inexpensive taxis. What exactly is this middle class person missing out on? > takeout food ... luxury items in most of the rest of the world. What makes you think that? Takeaway food is readily available in every developed country I've been in, and usually even cheaper in developing ones.
      - aianus 10y ago
        I have family in Europe and driving 25,000 km a year and eating takeout 2x a day alone would probably bankrupt them.
        aninhumer 10y ago
        >driving 25,000 km a year What matters is someone's ability to reach places they want to go, not how far they are able to drive. > eating takeout 2x a day This is easily possible for a middle class person in Europe (although I think most would consider it inadvisable).
- rmc 10y ago
  > Look at the US's GDP history. It started growing faster than Europe at the end of the 19th century. You mean when they got access to all that land to the west that was previously inhabited by Native Americans?

merpnderp 10y ago

Look at the US's GDP history. It started growing faster than Europe at the end of the 19th century. And you say it only enriched the top of our society? First look up what median means, then realize that the US's median income is 50% higher than Germany's. For a population several times larger and several times more diverse.

aninhumer 10y ago
>the US's median income is 50% higher than Germany's Source? I'm looking at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median_income https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median_income and none of the sources show a difference as high as that. Also if you look at: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_wealth_per_adult https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_wealth_pe... the US has much lower median wealth than most European economies.
- pc86 10y ago
  I see you slipped in the word "wealth" when the GP specifically mentioned "income." Any reason for choosing one over the other?
  - aninhumer 10y ago
    I linked to wealth statistics alongside income statistics, because I think it's a relevant data point. I thought the distinction was fairly clear, but perhaps I should have emphasised it more?
    - jdmichal 10y ago
      I thought it was a good point to bring up. Comparing raw income doesn't mean anything -- you need to at least take cost of living into account. 75k is barely livable in SF, but quite comfortable in the Midwest, etc. If Germans are making less but are worth more... There's interesting things going on that probably need to be taken into consideration in such a conversation.
      - merpnderp 10y ago
        PPP (Price Purchasing Parity) is the definition of cost of living adjustments. If you see PPP, then that's already been factored in as well as the science can.
        jdmichal 10y ago
        Ah, missed that on the chart. Thanks for pointing it out.
- merpnderp 10y ago
  That was my source also and yes the actual difference is a mere 30% more - I was eyeballing it. My point wasn't to get into a pissing contest with who is richer, my point was that the US is no less equal than Germany and no one is bitching about how Germany's economy only enriches the top.
  - aninhumer 10y ago
    I also linked to statistics which show that most European countries have significantly higher median wealth than the US. (Although notably not Germany for some reason). The difference between the mean and median wealth is also notably high in the US, which suggests greater inequality.
- aianus 10y ago
  Assets minus liabilities doesn't capture the full picture. If a poor person in the US has a $3000 car they might be poorer on paper than a middle class Singaporean who takes the bus but the latter would have to spend $100k to enjoy the same transportation lifestyle as the former. Similar for things like detached houses and takeout food which are basic in the US but luxury items in most of the rest of the world.
  - aninhumer 10y ago
    > but the latter would have to spend $100k to enjoy the same transportation lifestyle as the former. What exactly does it mean to "enjoy the same transportation lifestyle" and why would it cost them $100k? Singapore is a tiny island with fairly comprehensive public transport, and relatively inexpensive taxis. What exactly is this middle class person missing out on? > takeout food ... luxury items in most of the rest of the world. What makes you think that? Takeaway food is readily available in every developed country I've been in, and usually even cheaper in developing ones.
    - aianus 10y ago
      I have family in Europe and driving 25,000 km a year and eating takeout 2x a day alone would probably bankrupt them.
      - aninhumer 10y ago
        >driving 25,000 km a year What matters is someone's ability to reach places they want to go, not how far they are able to drive. > eating takeout 2x a day This is easily possible for a middle class person in Europe (although I think most would consider it inadvisable).
rmc 10y ago
> Look at the US's GDP history. It started growing faster than Europe at the end of the 19th century. You mean when they got access to all that land to the west that was previously inhabited by Native Americans?