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Why can't Thiel like New Zealand and support Trump? Isn't this a big ad hominem response to Thiel's politics? Obligatory (because I don't care to defend things

Why can't Thiel like New Zealand and support Trump? Isn't this a big ad hominem response to Thiel's politics? Obligatory (because I don't care to defend things that people like to assume): I don't like Trump and didn't vote for him partly because of the stuff that's in the news now.

zzleeper 10y ago
Because by now it's well known that many billionaires are using NZ as their backup in case TSHTF. And that's way more likely than him suddely developing affection for a random country across the ocean.
- humanrebar 10y ago
  I get the point. It's clearly implied in the piece and in the fact that it's on the HN front page. My point is "it doesn't matter and I don't know why I should care". I'm more interested in rational (not fallacy-centered) responses to his thoughts.
- buildly 10y ago
  Since it happened in 2011 I assume he has had his eye on a contingency plan of that nature for a while now.
celticninja 10y ago
Is anyone saying he cannot? Although there was a lot of press recently about people like Thiel buying these remote places in case of some sort of global disaster. NZ is a nice place to have a pint or two and wait for the trouble to all blow over. So it may seem like pushing for Trump could increase the risk of global disaster, which Thiel has hedged against but many of us are not as fortunate to have a well stocked, remote bolt hole.
throwawayCH_NC 10y ago
He doesn't 'like New Zealand'. Hell, I like NZ! He winds up at the dawn of the internet in an early monopoly (Paypal), leverages insider user-monitoring to sell dashboards to the Feds (Palantir), and after enabling the security monitoring services he claims to be opposed to, helps a raving despot take their command, decides he wants to cash out his $bn once shit gits real. the man is a wealthy coward and hypocrite, who has helped deeply hurt a nation of mostly decent people. he's scum.
- dang 10y ago
  No one is allowed to comment like this here, even about billionaires whom they dislike. We've banned this account for trolling.
azernik 10y ago
In certain circles, New Zealand citizenship is seen as a rich survivalist's hedge against the collapse of American society [1]. Especially given that he's gotten this citizenship and is not intending to live there (and doesn't even travel there often enough to go through his naturalization ceremony in-country), that is the most likely motivation. And given that this is just after Thiel so enthusiastically helped Trump get elected, it's easy to see this as voter's remorse, even though Thiel started this process long before Trump was running (in fact, even before Obama was running in 2008). [1] http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/01/30/doomsday-prep-for-the-super-rich http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/01/30/doomsday-prep-f...
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- humanrebar 10y ago
  So Thiel supported Trump and isn't a jingoist, at least not a traditional one. I guess that's interesting but not front page material for a thoughtful community. It's clearly a response to his thoughts on the recent immigration order. But it's a long-form logical fallacy.
  - rev_null 10y ago
    Thiel made the mistake of taking Trump seriously when he should have been taking him literally.
    - fighttf 10y ago
      Mmmm... I think thiel knew exactly what he was getting with trump. Let's not make excuses for the guy
      - rev_null 10y ago
        I meant it as a half-joking inverse of Thiel's claim pre-election that the media takes Trump literally but not seriously [1]. It's very clear now that much of what Trump said was literal. [1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/erik-wemple/wp/2016/10/31/peter-thiels-media-critique-reporters-take-trumps-statements-literally-but-not-seriously/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/erik-wemple/wp/2016/10/...
_delirium 10y ago
It's not impossible, just somewhat at odds with the "America first" rhetoric of the Trump camp. If you think the U.S. isn't the future and you're comparison-shopping for other citizenships, that sounds more like you're part of the "globalist elite", than like you're an America-firster committed to the country.
CPLX 10y ago
I don't think it's even a little confusing that residents of this country would have some concern about a billionaire that appears to be actively working to destroy the pillars of our civil society while simultaneously making plans to relocate to an island halfway around the world once the collapse takes place. It is, literally, as easy to understand as the plot of a comic book or James Bond movie.
coldtea 10y ago
>Why can't Thiel like New Zealand and support Trump? Because it's in bad taste to want to immigrate to / get citizenship at a country, when you're deep involved into politics that affect another country.
cpursley 10y ago
Seriously, having multiple citizenships is an insurance play that we would (and should) participate in if we can. As long as Thiel is not lobbying the US Government to enforce a single-citizenship rule like Germany and some other European nations employ or asking NZ to stop issuing dual-citizenship to Americans, I don't see the problem. As a side note, New Zealand has the best immigration site I've ever seen: https://www.newzealandnow.govt.nz/ https://www.newzealandnow.govt.nz/

zzleeper 10y ago

Because by now it's well known that many billionaires are using NZ as their backup in case TSHTF. And that's way more likely than him suddely developing affection for a random country across the ocean.

humanrebar 10y ago
I get the point. It's clearly implied in the piece and in the fact that it's on the HN front page. My point is "it doesn't matter and I don't know why I should care". I'm more interested in rational (not fallacy-centered) responses to his thoughts.
buildly 10y ago
Since it happened in 2011 I assume he has had his eye on a contingency plan of that nature for a while now.

celticninja 10y ago

Is anyone saying he cannot? Although there was a lot of press recently about people like Thiel buying these remote places in case of some sort of global disaster. NZ is a nice place to have a pint or two and wait for the trouble to all blow over. So it may seem like pushing for Trump could increase the risk of global disaster, which Thiel has hedged against but many of us are not as fortunate to have a well stocked, remote bolt hole.

throwawayCH_NC 10y ago

He doesn't 'like New Zealand'. Hell, I like NZ! He winds up at the dawn of the internet in an early monopoly (Paypal), leverages insider user-monitoring to sell dashboards to the Feds (Palantir), and after enabling the security monitoring services he claims to be opposed to, helps a raving despot take their command, decides he wants to cash out his $bn once shit gits real. the man is a wealthy coward and hypocrite, who has helped deeply hurt a nation of mostly decent people. he's scum.

dang 10y ago
No one is allowed to comment like this here, even about billionaires whom they dislike. We've banned this account for trolling.

azernik 10y ago

In certain circles, New Zealand citizenship is seen as a rich survivalist's hedge against the collapse of American society [1]. Especially given that he's gotten this citizenship and is not intending to live there (and doesn't even travel there often enough to go through his naturalization ceremony in-country), that is the most likely motivation. And given that this is just after Thiel so enthusiastically helped Trump get elected, it's easy to see this as voter's remorse, even though Thiel started this process long before Trump was running (in fact, even before Obama was running in 2008). [1] http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/01/30/doomsday-prep-for-the-super-rich http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/01/30/doomsday-prep-f...

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
humanrebar 10y ago
So Thiel supported Trump and isn't a jingoist, at least not a traditional one. I guess that's interesting but not front page material for a thoughtful community. It's clearly a response to his thoughts on the recent immigration order. But it's a long-form logical fallacy.
- rev_null 10y ago
  Thiel made the mistake of taking Trump seriously when he should have been taking him literally.
  - fighttf 10y ago
    Mmmm... I think thiel knew exactly what he was getting with trump. Let's not make excuses for the guy
    - rev_null 10y ago
      I meant it as a half-joking inverse of Thiel's claim pre-election that the media takes Trump literally but not seriously [1]. It's very clear now that much of what Trump said was literal. [1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/erik-wemple/wp/2016/10/31/peter-thiels-media-critique-reporters-take-trumps-statements-literally-but-not-seriously/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/erik-wemple/wp/2016/10/...

_delirium 10y ago

It's not impossible, just somewhat at odds with the "America first" rhetoric of the Trump camp. If you think the U.S. isn't the future and you're comparison-shopping for other citizenships, that sounds more like you're part of the "globalist elite", than like you're an America-firster committed to the country.

CPLX 10y ago

I don't think it's even a little confusing that residents of this country would have some concern about a billionaire that appears to be actively working to destroy the pillars of our civil society while simultaneously making plans to relocate to an island halfway around the world once the collapse takes place. It is, literally, as easy to understand as the plot of a comic book or James Bond movie.

coldtea 10y ago

>Why can't Thiel like New Zealand and support Trump? Because it's in bad taste to want to immigrate to / get citizenship at a country, when you're deep involved into politics that affect another country.

cpursley 10y ago

Seriously, having multiple citizenships is an insurance play that we would (and should) participate in if we can. As long as Thiel is not lobbying the US Government to enforce a single-citizenship rule like Germany and some other European nations employ or asking NZ to stop issuing dual-citizenship to Americans, I don't see the problem. As a side note, New Zealand has the best immigration site I've ever seen: https://www.newzealandnow.govt.nz/ https://www.newzealandnow.govt.nz/