4 ms·

On the flip-side, it's described as a terrible, terrible risk to hire anyone in a European country, because you're signing up for so much responsibility for the

On the flip-side, it's described as a terrible, terrible risk to hire anyone in a European country, because you're signing up for so much responsibility for them. You'd better really need someone before you hire them. You'd better really vet them because getting rid of a bad egg is nigh impossible. (Or so the narrative goes.)

donquichotte 10y ago
It is! There's usually a 3-month evaluation period for tech jobs where I live, but I've never seen anyone getting fired in that time.
zorked 10y ago
Also you may end up working at a place full of bad eggs. Prospective employees in Europe who have an interest in a productive life also have to vet the company to make sure they select employees carefully and put the effort to get rid of who shouldn't be there. And that's hard to do unless you know someone inside.
J-dawg 10y ago
In the UK I sometimes feel like we get the worst of both worlds. There's a perception that it's nigh impossible to fire someone and that jobs are very secure, which leads to fairly conservative hiring policies and quite low wages (in the tech sector anyway - definitely low relative to contracting here or the equivalent job in the USA). In reality, jobs really aren't that secure after all. I personally worked for a rather cut-throat small company that fired at least 4 people during the short time I worked there. They'd all worked there for less than a year. I knew all of them personally, and none of them were terrible at their jobs or really deserved to be fired. I'm convinced one of them was fired just because his project came to an end and he was no longer required. You can't make a claim for unfair dismissal until you've worked somewhere for at least 2 years, so if you're fired before that time you've got very few options legally. I can't speak about after the 2 years has elapsed because I've got no experience of that. Maybe then it really does become very difficult to fire someone. But people move around more often these days, I'm sure a large percentage of most employers' workforces are under the 2 year mark at any time.
- bitmapbrother 10y ago
  IBM and all of their massive "redundancy" layoffs are a clear indication of how easy it is to get rid of people in the UK.
  - chimeracoder 10y ago
    > IBM and all of their massive "redundancy" layoffs are a clear indication of how easy it is to get rid of people in the UK. No, it's an indication that a massive company with lots of resources is able to cover its legal bases enough that it can lay off large numbers of people in batches. That doesn't mean it's easy by any means.
cmdrfred 10y ago
Too be fair, employers in the US also describe hiring someone as a monumental risk.
pgeorgi 10y ago
European countries differ, but the tales are alike. At least for Germany, if you want to get rid of somebody (outside the public sector), you can. If you don't know about somebody's qualifications, you have 6 months of evaluation and can start with a limited contract for up to two years (and companies routinely do). If people underperform (or are otherwise unfit for the job), you can get rid of them after a small number of written warnings to notify them, so they can try to improve (somewhat similar to a performance improvement plan). But that tale is very useful to keep employees subservient: "Be grateful that we take the risk of employing you, so better don't stick your neck out by asking for something outrageous such as a higher salary!", and so employers keep telling it.

donquichotte 10y ago

It is! There's usually a 3-month evaluation period for tech jobs where I live, but I've never seen anyone getting fired in that time.

zorked 10y ago

Also you may end up working at a place full of bad eggs. Prospective employees in Europe who have an interest in a productive life also have to vet the company to make sure they select employees carefully and put the effort to get rid of who shouldn't be there. And that's hard to do unless you know someone inside.

J-dawg 10y ago

In the UK I sometimes feel like we get the worst of both worlds. There's a perception that it's nigh impossible to fire someone and that jobs are very secure, which leads to fairly conservative hiring policies and quite low wages (in the tech sector anyway - definitely low relative to contracting here or the equivalent job in the USA). In reality, jobs really aren't that secure after all. I personally worked for a rather cut-throat small company that fired at least 4 people during the short time I worked there. They'd all worked there for less than a year. I knew all of them personally, and none of them were terrible at their jobs or really deserved to be fired. I'm convinced one of them was fired just because his project came to an end and he was no longer required. You can't make a claim for unfair dismissal until you've worked somewhere for at least 2 years, so if you're fired before that time you've got very few options legally. I can't speak about after the 2 years has elapsed because I've got no experience of that. Maybe then it really does become very difficult to fire someone. But people move around more often these days, I'm sure a large percentage of most employers' workforces are under the 2 year mark at any time.

bitmapbrother 10y ago
IBM and all of their massive "redundancy" layoffs are a clear indication of how easy it is to get rid of people in the UK.
- chimeracoder 10y ago
  > IBM and all of their massive "redundancy" layoffs are a clear indication of how easy it is to get rid of people in the UK. No, it's an indication that a massive company with lots of resources is able to cover its legal bases enough that it can lay off large numbers of people in batches. That doesn't mean it's easy by any means.

cmdrfred 10y ago

Too be fair, employers in the US also describe hiring someone as a monumental risk.

pgeorgi 10y ago

European countries differ, but the tales are alike. At least for Germany, if you want to get rid of somebody (outside the public sector), you can. If you don't know about somebody's qualifications, you have 6 months of evaluation and can start with a limited contract for up to two years (and companies routinely do). If people underperform (or are otherwise unfit for the job), you can get rid of them after a small number of written warnings to notify them, so they can try to improve (somewhat similar to a performance improvement plan). But that tale is very useful to keep employees subservient: "Be grateful that we take the risk of employing you, so better don't stick your neck out by asking for something outrageous such as a higher salary!", and so employers keep telling it.